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Old 07-14-2005, 04:31   #136
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhaoS

*Sighs* I do know what kind of health trojans have, because of the health glitch they can end up with 14k-20k but so can a warrior using the same glitch.

hey sup man, Lex here ;o
my warr only rbed at 121 for certain reasons, but yea, im 110 now and only got 4800 hp, i thought i could get like 5500+ ><

i calc. i can get like 7400 at 110 usin the bug thing but cant afford atm
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:04   #137
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at 120 with seiphor i had 7k O.o and that's with 60 dex, 176 str, no mana and everything else in sta
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Old 07-19-2005, 23:09   #138
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I have no idea why the heck they dont just remove warriors if they dont intend to fix them. As it stands the reasons warrior seem pathetic are:

Apparently a hand penalty meant for trojans that affects warriors and also archers. How this affects archers is beyond me, but if this bug is present on warrior it will drop their attack more then it should.

Armoring of trojan beats warrior most of the time. Here is what I found out. I used Super as a quicker estimate but even in Elite its the same thing:

Oxhide armor starts at 14 while Leather armor starts at 15. What the heck? From there on up to Bright armor and Dipper Armor, Warrior and Trojan armor remain equal. M.Def of Trojan armor always remains superior to Warriors. From level 57 armor Trojan beats Warrior armor in all apsects. It is only finally at level 120 that Warrior armor gains the upper hand over Trojan but only in phys def and very slightly.

When it comes to headgear Warrior beats Trojan up to Bronze versus Brass, there on Helemts and Coronet remain relatively equal until level 120 where Helmet beats Coronet. Warrior helmets > Trojan Coronet early and in final level.

Shields do not have a level 120, it is also only at level 70 that Shields provide a very weak and low bonus to attack. However shields are a defense item, the fact that they provide bonus attack is pretty good even if its a low bonus. Later on it gets pretty good as it stands it caps at 126 with a super fire shield (without gems and such). Seeing as the 120 armor is 'superior' to trojan in physical defense and seeing as a shield would add defense this might be the reason why there isn't a level 120 shield. Also notice that armor of Warriors begin to lack in defense when they are able to use a shield. Perhaps they where trying to balance it out seeing as Shield offer defense. However having Warrior armor lose to Trojan armor by great quantities of points in defense might be a bit too harsh.

Warriors lack any real stamina move. XP Shield is awesome for defense, granted. But if it where a stamina move that used up a hefty amount (more then 50% base stamina) and provided 150% bonus defense (or even 200%) it could also still be viable. It could possibly last 30 seconds though seeing as its stamina based now. Also dash is according to some warriors effective, too bad it uses up shield durability instead of stamina.

In my opinion they should decrease armor of trojans from level 57 and increase warrior armor a bit more. Not something grand just so warrior armor always beats trojan armor slightly, it makes no sense that strips of cloth are far superior to hard armor encasings. Besides trojan have lots of health. As it stands warriors should also get a rough slight increase in vitality value.

Still keeping in mind what was discussed about armor + shields, perhaps what they need to do is raise Warrior armor defense a bit, not more then Trojan if thats what they where trying to do and raise shield defense a little bit more as well as the attack bonus. The increases could be in 10%. This will make armor and shield a more powerful defensive force then trojan armor. Besides helmets equal and rival coronets in defensive power. Also a 15% increase in Shield attack bonus can be nice and useful for Warriors.

Also I heard reflect is bugged. Not sure how bugged though. But if it is they should fix reflect. However from what I heard Reflect is the single most powerful reborn skill. At least compared to the other skills. If it gets fixxed then Reflect can make Warriors own a lot more then they seem too. This would mean a Warrior's purpose is to Reb as quickly as possible. Perhaps thats why they have Superman for.

All in all there's nothing really wrong with warriors, just that the admin/creators, don't seam to have done a good job in designing them: Warrior = superb defense while Trojan = superb attack.

Also they really need to give archers some more oomph. Im surprised I don't hear them as often...

I also believe that Warriors might be able to use with quite a lot of ease a two hander and still use a shield. Or if they use a two hander that they get bonus attack up to compensate for loss of defense.

If XP Shield was a stamina move instead, XP Full Moon could be used with more freedom. As it stands Full Moon is quite ineffective. Changing it to unblockable non physical non magical damage that gives a fixed amount of damage per level could work. Example at level 1 it does 25% opponent base max health damage, level 2 50% opponent base max health damage and at level 3 75% opponent base max health damage. This would make a better tradeoff seeing as a Warrior has to wait until XP gets up. So if you use it at level 1 on a Trojan who has 2k max health it will always deal 500 damage unblockable damage. At level 2 it would deal 1000 damage and at level 3 it would deal 1500 damage. Against a Tao with 1.5K, level 1 would deal 375 damage, level 2 would deal 750 damage and level 3 would deal 1125 damage. Keep in mind this would make FM more effective because IT always deal that damage and it will deal always based on max base health not immediate health.

Roar was a cheap attempt to make Warriors more team friendly. Perhaps Roar should be redefined and become instead a status enhancing effect that raises attack power of Warrior and team members by 25% and reduces opponent attack by 25%. Effects last 15 seconds. This would make XP Roar a powerful ability yet unabusable because it requires XP. Also effects are non cummulative. You can't XP Roar to get more attack Bonuses.

What Im stating here is then: Make Shield a hefty amount of Stamina move increasing total defense value by +150% its orginal value and lasting 30 seconds, so if a Warrior has 150 total defense, using this stamina Shield would grant him 375 total defense instead. Granted it doesn't sound as powerful as the XP Shield, but being able to use it in Stamina and use XP for other skills makes a better tradeoff.

Change XP Full Moon and XP Roar so they become more powerful at the expense that it uses up XP and can't be insta casted. Drop XP Accuracy or make it a Stamina move instead as no real Warrior will use this from what I have deducted (Yes Im aware some might but most PvP Warriors will use XP Shield over any other move and stick with it. This eliminates any variety in Warrior skill tactic.) So Full Moon can then become essentially a powerful attack and Roar a powerful Team ability.

Im unaware how effective dash is, and whether it works fine as it it stands. However I have heard it does damage and stuns and can be used twice in a row. Im also unaware how much damage it does. Perhaps redefine dash to make it more effective? Or perhaps it works fine as it is.

I also find that Shields are pretty effective in their job as defensive items, being able to get socked also adds to its effectiveness. I'm unsure how unblanaced or balanced a shield would be if it could get two sockets. Adding a level 120 shield might not be a good idea since Warrior level 120 armor super (none +) surpasses Trojan. Perhaps a level 115 Shield with more defense and attack power roughly 20% more then the 110 one?

Any suggestions are welcome.
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:03   #139
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ellyhime
Alternately, this may actually be a better idea for hercules, as rediculous as it might sound at first:

50% current HP/ Max HP = Full Power hercules

> than 50 = penalty by that much
< than 50 = bonus by that much

So, 1% Hp = 49% damage bonus to hercules.
100% HP = 50% damage penalty to hercules.



.
i think herc is fine the way it is herc is 1/3 of ur main atk or somethin like that
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Old 07-20-2005, 01:15   #140
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maglad


Btw, i have been beta tester in a lot of games before, and you where usually allowed to lvl up much faster than in the released game (im assuming the CO2 accounts will be erased when the actual game is released) so we could as beta tester get access to all the propierties of our characthers sooner and, well, test them ^_^U

hehe dun think thay would be sellin dbs on beta if thay were gointo delete all the char when beta is done
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Old 07-23-2005, 01:57   #141
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Exclamation wtf...

with the addition of a defence gem with 5,10, and 15pct, this should really cover you r concerns. Just use the defence gems instead of going for an all out attack. The use of gems and equipment will make large differences, and i dont think there is enough consideration for the percent gems are adding here. Fact is trojan have 2 easy extra sockets. That ability makes a huge difference, but i dont see anyone suggesting to bring back the 4 soc weapons, for the other classes. No matter what they changed it would make some ppl unhappy and some happy. I say leave it alone and see what the lower defence gem percents do.

Long ago there were defence gemms with same percents as Dragon gemms, and it caused problems. Thats why Krylin is Durrability now. Enjoy!
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:38   #142
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Re: wtf...

Quote:
Originally posted by Ash_Shade
with the addition of a defence gem with 5,10, and 15pct, this should really cover you r concerns. Just use the defence gems instead of going for an all out attack. The use of gems and equipment will make large differences, and i dont think there is enough consideration for the percent gems are adding here. Fact is trojan have 2 easy extra sockets. That ability makes a huge difference, but i dont see anyone suggesting to bring back the 4 soc weapons, for the other classes. No matter what they changed it would make some ppl unhappy and some happy. I say leave it alone and see what the lower defence gem percents do.

Long ago there were defence gemms with same percents as Dragon gemms, and it caused problems. Thats why Krylin is Durrability now. Enjoy!
4 easy sockets?

Hmm didnt Warriors have three sockets overall with Shield? Thats a lot more then Archers and Taos right?
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Old 07-27-2005, 18:27   #143
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Im NOT beeing in warriors side, ima water tao BTW so... But i've seen that:

1-Warriors armor have less defense than trojans one

2-There IS NOT! a L120 shield

3-a L120 trojan have almost the same defense of a warrior even if the warrior have a shield (L110...)

4- about the war>archer>tao>trojan>war
INCORRECT!:
Trojans got more magic defense than wars.

at it looks like all boots of the same lvl got the same dodge it looks like mmm, Only FIRETAOS can own trojans.. trougth XP SHIELD is only xp skill..

4-WOuld not be bad to make a warrior and trojan FAIR

5-(IMPORTANT) THE INFO IN WEBSITE ="WARRIOR HAVE MORE DEFENSE THAN ALL CLASES" is FALSE...trojan armor got more defense than warriors; warriors are supossed to have more def than other classes; without the shield.

6- May make it fair
make a L120 shield and make shield have 40% more def to the shield, swich the trojan armor defense with the warriors, trojans are powerfull they kinda dont need the defense; when shield get +s add it not just defense, add magic def and a tiny attack would make a diference, troutgth of this the XP shield u can make it 2X def wile pking, 3X vs PVM, the XP shield to double the magic defense; Make FLYING MOON a full stamina user skill, Warriors kinda have not a opportunity of owning a tao or archer so that skill will kinda help.. Trojans got the HERC...

I think that will make fair a war vs trojan... so the one with the best strayegy or equipment will make the diference, i know TQ can do something or? TQ like the trojans more that would be unfair plz tell me something about
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Old 07-28-2005, 09:44   #144
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What about lvling speed?

Fires are slow and all others classes are fast wtf?
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Old 07-28-2005, 12:24   #145
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lvl 130 shield and magic defense added from shield composition would make me a happy warrior.
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Old 08-02-2005, 06:43   #146
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Quote:
Im NOT beeing in warriors side, ima water tao BTW so... But i've seen that:

1-Warriors armor have less defense than trojans one

2-There IS NOT! a L120 shield

3-a L120 trojan have almost the same defense of a warrior even if the warrior have a shield (L110...)

4- about the war>archer>tao>trojan>war
INCORRECT!:
Trojans got more magic defense than wars.

at it looks like all boots of the same lvl got the same dodge it looks like mmm, Only FIRETAOS can own trojans.. trougth XP SHIELD is only xp skill..

4-WOuld not be bad to make a warrior and trojan FAIR

5-(IMPORTANT) THE INFO IN WEBSITE ="WARRIOR HAVE MORE DEFENSE THAN ALL CLASES" is FALSE...trojan armor got more defense than warriors; warriors are supossed to have more def than other classes; without the shield.

6- May make it fair
make a L120 shield and make shield have 40% more def to the shield, swich the trojan armor defense with the warriors, trojans are powerfull they kinda dont need the defense; when shield get +s add it not just defense, add magic def and a tiny attack would make a diference, troutgth of this the XP shield u can make it 2X def wile pking, 3X vs PVM, the XP shield to double the magic defense; Make FLYING MOON a full stamina user skill, Warriors kinda have not a opportunity of owning a tao or archer so that skill will kinda help.. Trojans got the HERC...

I think that will make fair a war vs trojan... so the one with the best strayegy or equipment will make the diference, i know TQ can do something or? TQ like the trojans more that would be unfair plz tell me something about
I totaly agree with you, I'm a warrior reborn warrior lvl 130, I know it's very very veryamazing coz most of warrior reborn trojan or fire, or they stop playing, and begin a new character.

TQ must do something, coz, we are very weak, reflection sould work with all dmg.
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Old 08-03-2005, 22:04   #147
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Well since everyone is giving their two cents wort I guess I'll add mine.

I play a Trojan, Archer and Water Tao. So I know pretty well the quality of each one.

I agree that Trojan is sitting on top of the heap. Except maybe for Fire Tao's. Not sure. Never used em.

I think the Troj's def should be cut just a little. Let the HP alone, it's good where it is. And toss herc, it's pure cheese and had to be made with noob pkers in mind.

Archers are pretty much alright I think. Though Fly gives them a major advantage over the melee types. I'd say cut the fly time some to give them poor warrs a chance to fight back. And make the arrows some cheaper. Unless you're on tg it costs a mint to level.

I hear lots of people complain that Waters aren't powerful enough. Come on people, these are support characters, you want Gandolf go rent LotR. Best thing to do with them I think would be up their defenses and HP some. Then maybe they'll live long enough to actually support.

Warriors are hardly true to what the game envisions in it's descriptions. They're as much tank as I am a loaf of bread. Up their armor a little. But up they're shield alot. Why? I see lots of warriors running around with 2h weapons to come close to the attack of the Troj. So make them pay for it. They get that extra attack at the cost of their def. Basically tossing away their class advantage. While you're at it give them a useful stamina skill. Hell if a warrior came with heal I might actually think of making one. Their HP should be brought up some too I think.

Fire Tao's I have no idea. Never really had any experience using or going against one. But from what I hear their magaic attack is just too powerful for a ranged attack. Sure a trojan has a powerful attack, But unless you're using a ranged skill, which are much mor limited in accuracy and number of times you can use it, the flamy boy's magic is going to win out every time.

Course I'm viewing all this from the point of a reactionary fighter. I always attack second.

Go ahead, shoot it down. Pick it apart. Just my thoughts.

Last edited by Tigris; 08-03-2005 at 22:21.
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Old 08-09-2005, 17:41   #148
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Balancing Classes

Actualy it would be very simple to balance the classes. Give Warriors and Trojans equal hit points. Warriors should have heavier armor than trojans at all lvls after 15. At lvl 40 with the addition of the shield the warrior should have twice the armor class as a trojan of the same lvl and equal equipment. One does twice damage and takes twice damage, one does half damage and takes half damage. Thus a fight between equal lvls and equal equipment comes down to who ever gets exp skills first.

Toas and archers should be balanced so that they are in the same stalemate as warrior and Trojan. How ever that needs to be done.

Now here is where it gets better. With the heavy armor and shield, and flying moon, the warrior should own an equal archer 90+ percent of the time. With little armor and no shield an archer should own a trojan 90+ percent of the time. With their better magic defence a trojan should own a Tao 90+ percent of the time and with little magic defence a Warrior should get owned by a Tao 90+ percent of the time.

All classes are balanced, and there is a counter for each class.

Further Scatter and rapid fire should be either an xp skill or use stamina. Other classes have to use stamina, or xp skills for their major attack skills. Flying moon should be a stamina skill. Warrior is the only class that has no stamina skill.

Two hand weapons should have twice attack of one hand weapons. Otherwise they are usefull only for power leveling in areas you can one hit kill. You take too much damage otherwise, and warriors, with their low hp can not afford to take damage. Also Trojans will not want to give up their third and fourth sockets, so two handed weapons should maybe have four sockets. I love the two handed weapons but can not use them to fight creatures of my lvl. only those who are green to me.

Make a lvl 120 shield. Make shields socketable the same way weapons are socketed.

Well those are my thoughts.
Flame away.

Last edited by sdwyer; 08-09-2005 at 19:49.
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Old 08-09-2005, 21:41   #149
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Quote:
Originally posted by ilam
Im NOT beeing in warriors side, ima water tao BTW so... But i've seen that:

1-Warriors armor have less defense than trojans one
of course, they hav shields that in addition with the armor make more defence

2-There IS NOT! a L120 shield
there is no 120 earrings,rings, nekkies, bags, bracelets either.

3-a L120 trojan have almost the same defense of a warrior even if the warrior have a shield (L110...)
not true at all. warriors will always have more defence than trojans. unless u compare a warrior with very crappy items and a trojan with full super and +4


4- about the war>archer>tao>trojan>war
INCORRECT!:
Trojans got more magic defense than wars.
warriors have a lot more m-def than the trojans. some warriors could even get as much magic def as an average archer their lvl.

at it looks like all boots of the same lvl got the same dodge it looks like mmm, Only FIRETAOS can own trojans.. trougth XP SHIELD is only xp skill..
warriors have shield which gives them soooo much dodge. i don't think that an average lvl 100 archer would ever have a chance with an average lv l100 warrior

4-WOuld not be bad to make a warrior and trojan FAIR
i think they are fair. if u had full socket warrior and full socket trojan, both reborn, warrior has a very high chances of winning.

5-(IMPORTANT) THE INFO IN WEBSITE ="WARRIOR HAVE MORE DEFENSE THAN ALL CLASES" is FALSE...trojan armor got more defense than warriors; warriors are supossed to have more def than other classes; without the shield.
lol show me where it says they are SUPPOSED to have more def WITHOUT the shield. it's a warrior's choice if he/she chooses a 2-hander over a 1-hander + shield. either u have high def or higher attack

6- May make it fair
make a L120 shield and make shield have 40% more def to the shield, swich the trojan armor defense with the warriors, trojans are powerfull they kinda dont need the defense; when shield get +s add it not just defense, add magic def and a tiny attack would make a diference, troutgth of this the XP shield u can make it 2X def wile pking, 3X vs PVM, the XP shield to double the magic defense; Make FLYING MOON a full stamina user skill, Warriors kinda have not a opportunity of owning a tao or archer so that skill will kinda help.. Trojans got the HERC...
lol 40% of magic def is very high. it's every trojan's dream to have this def. if warriors had m-def liek that they could have m-def as high as a tao.

that kind of flying moon should be allowed only after 100-110. before that its better if it's XP.


I think that will make fair a war vs trojan... so the one with the best strayegy or equipment will make the diference, i know TQ can do something or? TQ like the trojans more that would be unfair plz tell me something about
where do u get this crap from? I don't think u ever played either trojan or warrior
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Old 08-10-2005, 02:40   #150
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Quote:
2-There IS NOT! a L120 shield
there is no 120 earrings,rings, nekkies, bags, bracelets either.
The objective of the shield is to absorb the damage of the second weapon slot , and the weapons go to lvl 130! (half damage)

Quote:
4-WOuld not be bad to make a warrior and trojan FAIR
i think they are fair. if u had full socket warrior and full socket trojan, both reborn, warrior has a very high chances of winning.
Reflect dont reflect full damage done to u.
trojans have ALOT more hp than a warrior.
In equally items trojans would win 90 pc of all times.
Lets not forget that not everyone is crazy to go full sockets so in normal conditions warriors have 2 sockets vs 4 of trojans (trojan own anyway 100%)

Try playing a warrior and ull see ull get owned by trojans and taos.
Only thing u can kill is archers.
Trojans on the other hand can kill easily taos (herc) warriors (fb or direct hit). archers are a bit more hard to trojans but after lvl 120with good boots archers also get owned with herc or with fb when they stop flying

Oh and lets not forget that xp shield and superman are useless in pvp because no one will get close to u with those skills on.

However if they remove guards (for reborn) from pvp (they would only be usefull for leveling purposes) then warriors after reborn would be equally matched with all other classes.
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