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Old 01-26-2012, 14:45   #1
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Waters Overpowered - An Honest Opinion

I play a Water Taoist. I've been reborn now and I'm telling it like I see it: The class is ridiculously, horribly overpowered, second to only one other class in the game which you need a lot of skill to play. On top of that, magic caster is always, always the weakest class is a game. Here it's second from the top, and that needs to be changed for a lot of reasons, but also because it's counter to peoples' expectations of what a fantasy MMORPG will be. You want NEW players, don't you? Don't have eggs that crack open to reveal baby mice; people will be surprised, upset, and stop buying the eggs.

The reasons why Waters are overpowered, as I see it, are thus:

1. No Spirit requirements on backswords, allowing Taoists to dump everything into Vitality. Vitality is your god stat; it is the stat you pump up when you've met your requirements. Vitality translates into extra hit points and thus extra staying power, and it is the place where those extra points from sticking it out 'til 130 (I did this, not easy) matters. It is not supposed to be a way to dump your other, less valuable stats and pump your Vitality up high.
2. Buffs. Water Taoists should not be able to buff themselves. Don't nerf the buffs (this is what the class is about after all) but make a Water unable to cast Stigma, Star of Accuracy, or Magic Shield on himself.
3. Azure Shield. It's too powerful and it needs to be removed. Replace it with something that's useful in a team but useless to the solo Water, especially in the arena.
4. Zap. Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.

________________________________________


Now, here's where I feel a little cheated as a Water Taoist. Let me clarify though, none of this should even be talked about until ALL of the above has been done, and probably more yet.

1. Support. Water Taoist loses to Monk as a support class. Monks can remove Fog, and I can't. Soul Shackle beats a rez hands-down. Why not replace Azure Shield with a pure skill that removes Shackle? Now Monk is a powerful fighter and a decent leveler on its own, and a great solo boss-killer. So why would you want a Water in your party to kill the Terrato Dragon or Snow Banshee? You wouldn't. You want a Monk, and after you've got that, you want another Monk. And then, another. Why? Auras. So am I supposed to be a support class or not? If not, I see no reason to power down Waters. But if so, I feel I should outshine the Monk as a party member, a healer, and a buffer because of my low offense compared to Monk.
2. Overworld PK While Taoist shines in the arena, it's hugely gimped on the overworld. Being one-shotted by people half my battle power, because of the low defense on robes, doesn't feel great, and to me, already at a disadvantage farming and hunting, this should be adjusted. Reason being is simply this: It shouldn't be a simple matter of who can or can't one-shot the other person. They can, and I can't, so they win. They have no threat of retaliation this way since by the time they're blue-named I'm dead. Waters are supposed to be the goody-goodies of Conquer right? Well personally I think Water Taoist should have a disadvantage that is exactly the opposite of the Pirate one: Double PK points for killing others, AND double PK points to others for killing a Water. (if 20 is red-name, not sure never went that high, then just make it 15) I also think if you kill a Water you should have a cooldown where you cannot use a penitence amulet for one hour. OR... (not and) Waters should get some kind of defense against overworld PK, something that wouldn't strengthen them in the arena.
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Old 01-26-2012, 16:27   #2
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put tortoise gems in your gears then you wont get 1 hit, but yeah i kinda agree water and their azure and vit points make them overpowered, i play as a pure water but only because my gears arent strong enough to tank +12s without shield but when i do get good enough gears, ill be reincarnating into monk-war-wat using a spear
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Old 01-26-2012, 16:36   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
I play a Water Taoist. I've been reborn now and I'm telling it like I see it: The class is ridiculously, horribly overpowered, second to only one other class in the game which you need a lot of skill to play. On top of that, magic caster is always, always the weakest class is a game. Here it's second from the top, and that needs to be changed for a lot of reasons, but also because it's counter to peoples' expectations of what a fantasy MMORPG will be. You want NEW players, don't you? Don't have eggs that crack open to reveal baby mice; people will be surprised, upset, and stop buying the eggs.

The reasons why Waters are overpowered, as I see it, are thus:

1. No Spirit requirements on backswords, allowing Taoists to dump everything into Vitality. Vitality is your god stat; it is the stat you pump up when you've met your requirements. Vitality translates into extra hit points and thus extra staying power, and it is the place where those extra points from sticking it out 'til 130 (I did this, not easy) matters. It is not supposed to be a way to dump your other, less valuable stats and pump your Vitality up high.
2. Buffs. Water Taoists should not be able to buff themselves. Don't nerf the buffs (this is what the class is about after all) but make a Water unable to cast Stigma, Star of Accuracy, or Magic Shield on himself.
3. Azure Shield. It's too powerful and it needs to be removed. Replace it with something that's useful in a team but useless to the solo Water, especially in the arena.
4. Zap. Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.

________________________________________


Now, here's where I feel a little cheated as a Water Taoist. Let me clarify though, none of this should even be talked about until ALL of the above has been done, and probably more yet.

1. Support. Water Taoist loses to Monk as a support class. Monks can remove Fog, and I can't. Soul Shackle beats a rez hands-down. Why not replace Azure Shield with a pure skill that removes Shackle? Now Monk is a powerful fighter and a decent leveler on its own, and a great solo boss-killer. So why would you want a Water in your party to kill the Terrato Dragon or Snow Banshee? You wouldn't. You want a Monk, and after you've got that, you want another Monk. And then, another. Why? Auras. So am I supposed to be a support class or not? If not, I see no reason to power down Waters. But if so, I feel I should outshine the Monk as a party member, a healer, and a buffer because of my low offense compared to Monk.
2. Overworld PK While Taoist shines in the arena, it's hugely gimped on the overworld. Being one-shotted by people half my battle power, because of the low defense on robes, doesn't feel great, and to me, already at a disadvantage farming and hunting, this should be adjusted. Reason being is simply this: It shouldn't be a simple matter of who can or can't one-shot the other person. They can, and I can't, so they win. They have no threat of retaliation this way since by the time they're blue-named I'm dead. Waters are supposed to be the goody-goodies of Conquer right? Well personally I think Water Taoist should have a disadvantage that is exactly the opposite of the Pirate one: Double PK points for killing others, AND double PK points to others for killing a Water. (if 20 is red-name, not sure never went that high, then just make it 15) I also think if you kill a Water you should have a cooldown where you cannot use a penitence amulet for one hour. OR... (not and) Waters should get some kind of defense against overworld PK, something that wouldn't strengthen them in the arena.
spirit requirement on backswords wouldn't matter since all classes can pretty much reallot with weapons on for more hp.

suggesting that a water taoist can't buff itself is dumb...it would kill off most melee waters. also, for non melee waters..stig and acc won't do anything to help them so I see no point in taking that away.

azure is one of the main reasons and incentives for people to go wat. also, azure wont help the wat much if it doesn't have stg's in gear. if azure is removed, I'd expect most current waters to just go fire, which is comparably more op. I find it kinda funny that you're talking bout wat taos having low defense but you want azure removed. as for your suggestion for having a cooldown when using pent ammys after you've killed a water...stupid as hell. waters are fine as is.
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Old 01-26-2012, 16:47   #4
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I enjoy the Pk point idea as long as it doesn't affect me trying to kill enemy guild I am fine with it.
But red name should still be 30 or above.
No need to get red name for killing one player lol
After I 2nd Rb Water I most likely will reincarnated into Pure Wat because I will realised fog is a terrible selection now due to detox and what not.
Being Pure Wat already got it disadvantage before they can shine in battle due to Azure Shield.

In term of normal average Water who have no clans or gear, leveling is severely hindered due to lack of Superman. You don't get reflect as well since it very useful. The high tier player might consider reflect as rubbish due to it limit, but weaker player appreciated it usefulness.

You don't own in killing. You can like Fire them for a decent amount but they will pots if off and try to land that one hit on you. Just one hit is all it take to kill you. Azure shield isn't too godly and it required timing as well.
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Old 01-26-2012, 17:31   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
I play a Water Taoist. I've been reborn now and I'm telling it like I see it: The class is ridiculously, horribly overpowered, second to only one other class in the game which you need a lot of skill to play. On top of that, magic caster is always, always the weakest class is a game. Here it's second from the top, and that needs to be changed for a lot of reasons, but also because it's counter to peoples' expectations of what a fantasy MMORPG will be. You want NEW players, don't you? Don't have eggs that crack open to reveal baby mice; people will be surprised, upset, and stop buying the eggs.

The reasons why Waters are overpowered, as I see it, are thus:

1. No Spirit requirements on backswords, allowing Taoists to dump everything into Vitality. Vitality is your god stat; it is the stat you pump up when you've met your requirements. Vitality translates into extra hit points and thus extra staying power, and it is the place where those extra points from sticking it out 'til 130 (I did this, not easy) matters. It is not supposed to be a way to dump your other, less valuable stats and pump your Vitality up high.
2. Buffs. Water Taoists should not be able to buff themselves. Don't nerf the buffs (this is what the class is about after all) but make a Water unable to cast Stigma, Star of Accuracy, or Magic Shield on himself.
3. Azure Shield. It's too powerful and it needs to be removed. Replace it with something that's useful in a team but useless to the solo Water, especially in the arena.
4. Zap. Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.

________________________________________


Now, here's where I feel a little cheated as a Water Taoist. Let me clarify though, none of this should even be talked about until ALL of the above has been done, and probably more yet.

1. Support. Water Taoist loses to Monk as a support class. Monks can remove Fog, and I can't. Soul Shackle beats a rez hands-down. Why not replace Azure Shield with a pure skill that removes Shackle? Now Monk is a powerful fighter and a decent leveler on its own, and a great solo boss-killer. So why would you want a Water in your party to kill the Terrato Dragon or Snow Banshee? You wouldn't. You want a Monk, and after you've got that, you want another Monk. And then, another. Why? Auras. So am I supposed to be a support class or not? If not, I see no reason to power down Waters. But if so, I feel I should outshine the Monk as a party member, a healer, and a buffer because of my low offense compared to Monk.
2. Overworld PK While Taoist shines in the arena, it's hugely gimped on the overworld. Being one-shotted by people half my battle power, because of the low defense on robes, doesn't feel great, and to me, already at a disadvantage farming and hunting, this should be adjusted. Reason being is simply this: It shouldn't be a simple matter of who can or can't one-shot the other person. They can, and I can't, so they win. They have no threat of retaliation this way since by the time they're blue-named I'm dead. Waters are supposed to be the goody-goodies of Conquer right? Well personally I think Water Taoist should have a disadvantage that is exactly the opposite of the Pirate one: Double PK points for killing others, AND double PK points to others for killing a Water. (if 20 is red-name, not sure never went that high, then just make it 15) I also think if you kill a Water you should have a cooldown where you cannot use a penitence amulet for one hour. OR... (not and) Waters should get some kind of defense against overworld PK, something that wouldn't strengthen them in the arena.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannykinz View Post
put tortoise gems in your gears then you wont get 1 hit, but yeah i kinda agree water and their azure and vit points make them overpowered, i play as a pure water but only because my gears arent strong enough to tank +12s without shield but when i do get good enough gears, ill be reincarnating into monk-war-wat using a spear
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Originally Posted by Tide. View Post
spirit requirement on backswords wouldn't matter since all classes can pretty much reallot with weapons on for more hp.

suggesting that a water taoist can't buff itself is dumb...it would kill off most melee waters. also, for non melee waters..stig and acc won't do anything to help them so I see no point in taking that away.

azure is one of the main reasons and incentives for people to go wat. also, azure wont help the wat much if it doesn't have stg's in gear. if azure is removed, I'd expect most current waters to just go fire, which is comparably more op. I find it kinda funny that you're talking bout wat taos having low defense but you want azure removed. as for your suggestion for having a cooldown when using pent ammys after you've killed a water...stupid as hell. waters are fine as is.
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Originally Posted by SaintWulfie View Post
I enjoy the Pk point idea as long as it doesn't affect me trying to kill enemy guild I am fine with it.
But red name should still be 30 or above.
No need to get red name for killing one player lol
After I 2nd Rb Water I most likely will reincarnated into Pure Wat because I will realised fog is a terrible selection now due to detox and what not.
Being Pure Wat already got it disadvantage before they can shine in battle due to Azure Shield.

In term of normal average Water who have no clans or gear, leveling is severely hindered due to lack of Superman. You don't get reflect as well since it very useful. The high tier player might consider reflect as rubbish due to it limit, but weaker player appreciated it usefulness.

You don't own in killing. You can like Fire them for a decent amount but they will pots if off and try to land that one hit on you. Just one hit is all it take to kill you. Azure shield isn't too godly and it required timing as well.
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Old 01-26-2012, 18:46   #6
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whats op is azure in stpk and casting azures on other people.... even the fact that the water is nearly immortal with it is nothing compared to that
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Old 01-26-2012, 19:01   #7
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Old 01-26-2012, 19:04   #8
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azure shield is fine.. Although it does get irritating during stpk, and team pk tournies.. There should be some sort of cooldown though..Idk 5 sec before you could cast it again?
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Old 01-26-2012, 20:23   #9
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You are saying all of this from the stand point of a magic water, consider the fact that there are melee waters that depend on being able to buff themselves.
If waters are unable to buff themselves (why the hell that would happen I honestly don't know) wouldn't that carry over to every class that uses a water as its basis? That blows the whole water>war>XXX path.
Azure really is not that powerful unless you are past about 320 pot or have 48pct torts on. It is essentialy necessary for any melee water to get close to hercers so to weaken that would result in crippling a melee water.
Fire itself is not over powered, magic waters and fires are what are over powered, if fire was to be made more like fb as you seem to like the idea of that would once again be hurting the melee classes.

I do see some of your argument, however, you need to take into consideration that there are some other fighting styles that need that which you find to be over powered, because to us it is our only chance in a fight against those skill-less noobs who fight with their credit cards.
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Old 01-26-2012, 20:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.
Once i read this, I knew you were full of bad opinions.
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Old 01-26-2012, 21:41   #11
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Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
The reasons why Waters are overpowered, as I see it, are thus:

1. No Spirit requirements on backswords, allowing Taoists to dump everything into Vitality. Vitality is your god stat; it is the stat you pump up when you've met your requirements. Vitality translates into extra hit points and thus extra staying power, and it is the place where those extra points from sticking it out 'til 130 (I did this, not easy) matters. It is not supposed to be a way to dump your other, less valuable stats and pump your Vitality up high.
Taos = Weak to Phy. Dmg Hitters like Troj and others. Try playing as a Taoist with the default allotted stat.

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Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
2. Buffs. Water Taoists should not be able to buff themselves. Don't nerf the buffs (this is what the class is about after all) but make a Water unable to cast Stigma, Star of Accuracy, or Magic Shield on himself.
Erm, unable to buff themselves? Since when does this considers an OP? Unless you are a melee water tao, Stig and Acc aren't much useful to self. You ought to be joking me, seriously.

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Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
3. Azure Shield. It's too powerful and it needs to be removed. Replace it with something that's useful in a team but useless to the solo Water, especially in the arena.
Yes, its OP, but again, as I said, Taos = weak to phy. dmg (unless theres a ****load of STGs and +ns and -Damages). Also, you don't see many people complaining about it.

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Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
4. Zap. Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.
Very BAD suggestion. Seriously, this is one-sided.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
Now, here's where I feel a little cheated as a Water Taoist. Let me clarify though, none of this should even be talked about until ALL of the above has been done, and probably more yet.

1. Support. Water Taoist loses to Monk as a support class. Monks can remove Fog, and I can't. Soul Shackle beats a rez hands-down. Why not replace Azure Shield with a pure skill that removes Shackle? Now Monk is a powerful fighter and a decent leveler on its own, and a great solo boss-killer. So why would you want a Water in your party to kill the Terrato Dragon or Snow Banshee? You wouldn't. You want a Monk, and after you've got that, you want another Monk. And then, another. Why? Auras. So am I supposed to be a support class or not? If not, I see no reason to power down Waters. But if so, I feel I should outshine the Monk as a party member, a healer, and a buffer because of my low offense compared to Monk.
Once again, one sided. Monks can cast aura, and deshackles any dead soul, but can they buff (in terms of monks w/o water as previous state)? Can they revive? No? Then thats what the water taos are there for. Even with lower damage than monks or can't tank like them doesn't mean they are good-for-nothing supporters.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
2. Overworld PK While Taoist shines in the arena, it's hugely gimped on the overworld. Being one-shotted by people half my battle power, because of the low defense on robes, doesn't feel great, and to me, already at a disadvantage farming and hunting, this should be adjusted. Reason being is simply this: It shouldn't be a simple matter of who can or can't one-shot the other person. They can, and I can't, so they win. They have no threat of retaliation this way since by the time they're blue-named I'm dead. Waters are supposed to be the goody-goodies of Conquer right?
As I stated above, STGs, +ns AND -Damage. Seriously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishlet View Post
Well personally I think Water Taoist should have a disadvantage that is exactly the opposite of the Pirate one: Double PK points for killing others, AND double PK points to others for killing a Water. (if 20 is red-name, not sure never went that high, then just make it 15) I also think if you kill a Water you should have a cooldown where you cannot use a penitence amulet for one hour. OR... (not and) Waters should get some kind of defense against overworld PK, something that wouldn't strengthen them in the arena.
Water Taoist are never meant to pk as well as the other class, why on earth would there be a need for 2x pkp? Again, bad suggestion is bad.
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Old 01-27-2012, 02:36   #12
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4. Zap. Fire Taoist shares this advantage. To fix it, increase the range and power of all melee ranged skills such as Fast Blade. Decrease the range of Fire and Tornado to below Herc, and nerf the damage to about a fourth or a fifth of what it is. Make Thunder, Fire, and Tornado more like Fast Blade also, so that it requires skill to hit and only hits a 1x1 area.
Also make it cost like 50 stamina and add a hit rate depending on agility so you could miss it?
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Old 01-27-2012, 08:54   #13
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Originally Posted by LitasLTL View Post
Also make it cost like 50 stamina and add a hit rate depending on agility so you could miss it?
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Old 01-27-2012, 09:48   #14
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seens like ppl forgot about poison star

waters cant use azure since they cant get mana

zap a water and he cant use azure for so long
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Old 01-27-2012, 12:40   #15
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This thread is a troll thread.
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