View Poll Results: should we change values to match this system?
Yes 3 37.50%
No 5 62.50%
Voters: 8. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 05-21-2012, 21:17   #1
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
defense/armor function

heres my suggestion, rework the way armor factors in for taking damage.

1)battlepower will come last when factoring in damage, that percentage increase from battlepower? shouldnt come first. the percentage increase from the difference will be calucated as follows - ((my attack - targets armor)x(battle power bonus)) + ((fan) - (targets tower)) = final damage delt



the way it should work - higher value you take less damage from people reguardless of their gear

2)armor values would be recalculated so taos have the highest magic defense on their equipment.

3)warriors would have the highest physical defense on their equipment.
each piece

defense - a certain value means youll take that value less from the enemys physical hit.

magic defense - youll take that much less from the targets magic attack

4) i also suggest we change how much attack/magic attack weapons/armor give.

5) some suggested values of weapons

one handed super level 140 - 1100-1800attack
two handed super level 140 - 2500-4000attack
katanas would have a slight* increase. 1200-1900attack
backsword super level 140 - 750 Magic attack
ring super level 140 attack value - 200-375attack
braclet super level 140 Mattack - 175Magic attack
bag super level 140 Mattack - 65Magic attack

6) some suggested values of armor defense/magic defense

trojan super level 140 - 600/250
warrior super level 140 - 900/300
ninja super level 140 - 500/250
archer super level 140 - 500/500
tao super level 140 - 250/800
monk super level 140 - 350/700
pirate super level 140 - 550/250

7) all pieces of other* armor such as ring neck bag etc will give a small amount of defense/magic defense

some suggested values of a ring armor value
super level 140 - 50/50


necklace
super level 140 - 180/25

boots
super level 140 - 110/20

bag
super level 140 - 10/60

braclet
super level 140 - 5/70

shield
super level 140 - 320/80

earrings
super level 140 - 20/125

class helmets defense/Mdefense
trojan super level 140 - 130/70
warrior - 180/100
archer - 75/75
monk - 65/100
ninja - 75/35
pirate - 110/50
tao - 15/110

8) each + will increase the value of attack/defense/Mdefense by 10% of the base value

a +1 warrior armor would give 990/330
a +12 warrior armor would give 1980/660

a +1 one hander would give 1210-1980attack
a +12 one hander would give 2520-3960attack

a +1 bag would give

9) blessed equipment. each -% will give a bonus to the amount of defense you get for the gear.

some suggested values for all pieces of blessed equipment

10defense for each -1% for each of the -7%'s meaning a -7% item will get 70defense/70Mdefense


10)skills based off of percentages will still have the same values

11) gems will still give the same percentages for attack and M attack


12) archers* they will still do damage based off of the oponets dodge value. boots will still be the only way to defend against an archer.

each point of dodge ignores 1% of the arhcers attack.

archers will completley ignore the targets defense value, making them viable for pvp.

13) tower and fan damage will remain unchanged in calculating damage, it comes last


14) magic skills will have to be significantly lowered.
tornado in particular will add +135 magic attack as a skill.
fire circle would add +310
fire bomb +235
fire ring +150
fire +70
thunder +40
these values are all when fixed


15) battle power damage calculation will go as follows - 100point difference = 2x damage. 50point damage = deal an extra 50%. 10BP difference = no extra damage. no more damage can be added past 100 point difference.

there will be no defense given or added for having a higher battle power. so a person with say 8k atk will deal 4k damage with a melee hit against a tao whos BP is 385 vs that low level warrior whos atk is only 8k. lets be honest here, you were just ramed through with a giant spear, you gunna take 1 damage from that wearing cloth?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------



that being said lets do some math and calculate some damage matchups


lets see, pure warrior vs pure fire tao

for calculation purposes lets assume both characters are maxed gear and -7% with equal battle power.


warrior total armor/Mdefense - 1980(armor)+110(ring)+396(necklace)+242(boots)+704 (shield) +396(class helm) = 3838defense
660(armor)+110(ring)+44(necklace)+55(boots)+176(cl ass helm)+220(shield) = 1265magic defense. now lets add the -% values
53% assuming full -7 and -1 other items so +530 to defense and Mdefense

4358defense/1795Mdefense

warrior total attack - (5500-8800. 2h weapon + 440-825attack ring) comes out to 5940-9625
now lets factor in the 210% from super dragon gems
12495-20212.5 attack

tao total armor/Mdefense - 550(armor)+11(braclet)+22(bag)+33(class headgear)+242(boots) = 858armor
1760(armor) +132(bag) +44(boots) +154(braclet) +242(class headgear) = 2332Mdef
add the 530 bonus

1388defense/2862Mdef

tao total M attack - 1650(backsword) +385(braclet) +143(bag) 2178 magic attack.
times the 210 nix bonus = 4574 magic attack. + 135 for using fixd tornado. = 4709.

so back to the original formula - (my attack - targets defense)x(bp bonus) + (my fan - targets tower) = final attack.

the warrior will deal (12495 - 1388)(1.0) + (not sure of the perfect fans attack bonus here or the perfect tower, ill assume 2800 for a fan and 2000 for a tower?)
that leaves us with a grand total minimum hit of 11907damage against a tao.
an absolute max hit of 19625.
with a melee hit.

the tao will deal (4709 - 1795)(1.0) +800fan/tower difference = 3714 with tornado.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
keep in mind that calculation was done with a warrior/tao, warriors have higher defense than other classes so i would say that nado is going to deal a a lot more on others, probably around 5-6k


overall recomendations, if this new system were to be implemented i would say we nerf 2h skills such as widestrike or the spear skill idk what its called to deal 110% damage and AoE skills such as herc deal 70% of total attack. fast blade 90%. VP/DT deal 80%.

recomendations for leveling-
i would say we nerf the crap outa enemies hp to scale with attack values.
and defense values for regular enemies would be relativley low. monsters attack would do slightly more than a warriors physical defense.


potions - it would be impossible for taos to kill anyone on an equal gear level if pots were allowed, so if it were up to me i would recomend that pots be heavily restricted to say 1 every 5 seconds.


it "seems" taos are getting the short end of the stick on this one, but be aware, that this is on EQUAL battle power. if a tao were to be slightly higher say 5bp? the damage increase is so significant. 60battlepower? thats gunna be like 8k with tornado, clearly enough to kill anyone.


i would also say for tortise gems to be increased to -10% when super to give 100bonus armor in whatever its socketed in. 60seems to low to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



edit- i forgot to calculate that taos have 7less blessed percentage. 70armor wouldnt make much of a difference for that attack value so i wont change what ive posted. just please be aware that its not accurate to 100% more like 98%
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb

Last edited by kyle1234512; 05-21-2012 at 22:20.
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 09:36   #2
MyThirdAccount
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 10,142
MyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1234512 View Post
heres my suggestion, rework the way armor factors in for taking damage.

1)battlepower will come last when factoring in damage, that percentage increase from battlepower? shouldnt come first. the percentage increase from the difference will be calucated as follows - ((my attack - targets armor)x(battle power bonus)) + ((fan) - (targets tower)) = final damage delt



the way it should work - higher value you take less damage from people reguardless of their gear

2)armor values would be recalculated so taos have the highest magic defense on their equipment.

3)warriors would have the highest physical defense on their equipment.
each piece

defense - a certain value means youll take that value less from the enemys physical hit.

magic defense - youll take that much less from the targets magic attack

4) i also suggest we change how much attack/magic attack weapons/armor give.

5) some suggested values of weapons

one handed super level 140 - 1100-1800attack
two handed super level 140 - 2500-4000attack

katanas would have a slight* increase. 1200-1900attack
backsword super level 140 - 750 Magic attack
ring super level 140 attack value - 200-375attack
braclet super level 140 Mattack - 175Magic attack
bag super level 140 Mattack - 65Magic attack

6) some suggested values of armor defense/magic defense

trojan super level 140 - 600/250
warrior super level 140 - 900/300
ninja super level 140 - 500/250
archer super level 140 - 500/500
tao super level 140 - 250/800
monk super level 140 - 350/700
pirate super level 140 - 550/250

7) all pieces of other* armor such as ring neck bag etc will give a small amount of defense/magic defense

some suggested values of a ring armor value
super level 140 - 50/50


necklace
super level 140 - 180/25

boots
super level 140 - 110/20

bag
super level 140 - 10/60

braclet
super level 140 - 5/70

shield
super level 140 - 320/80

earrings
super level 140 - 20/125

class helmets defense/Mdefense
trojan super level 140 - 130/70
warrior - 180/100
archer - 75/75
monk - 65/100
ninja - 75/35
pirate - 110/50
tao - 15/110

8) each + will increase the value of attack/defense/Mdefense by 10% of the base value

a +1 warrior armor would give 990/330
a +12 warrior armor would give 1980/660

a +1 one hander would give 1210-1980attack
a +12 one hander would give 2520-3960attack

a +1 bag would give

9) blessed equipment. each -% will give a bonus to the amount of defense you get for the gear.

some suggested values for all pieces of blessed equipment

10defense for each -1% for each of the -7%'s meaning a -7% item will get 70defense/70Mdefense


10)skills based off of percentages will still have the same values

11) gems will still give the same percentages for attack and M attack


12) archers* they will still do damage based off of the oponets dodge value. boots will still be the only way to defend against an archer.

each point of dodge ignores 1% of the arhcers attack.

archers will completley ignore the targets defense value, making them viable for pvp.

13) tower and fan damage will remain unchanged in calculating damage, it comes last


14) magic skills will have to be significantly lowered.
tornado in particular will add +135 magic attack as a skill.
fire circle would add +310
fire bomb +235
fire ring +150
fire +70
thunder +40
these values are all when fixed


15) battle power damage calculation will go as follows - 100point difference = 2x damage. 50point damage = deal an extra 50%. 10BP difference = no extra damage. no more damage can be added past 100 point difference.

there will be no defense given or added for having a higher battle power. so a person with say 8k atk will deal 4k damage with a melee hit against a tao whos BP is 385 vs that low level warrior whos atk is only 8k. lets be honest here, you were just ramed through with a giant spear, you gunna take 1 damage from that wearing cloth?


-----------------------------------------------------------------------



that being said lets do some math and calculate some damage matchups


lets see, pure warrior vs pure fire tao

for calculation purposes lets assume both characters are maxed gear and -7% with equal battle power.


warrior total armor/Mdefense - 1980(armor)+110(ring)+396(necklace)+242(boots)+704 (shield) +396(class helm) = 3838defense
660(armor)+110(ring)+44(necklace)+55(boots)+176(cl ass helm)+220(shield) = 1265magic defense. now lets add the -% values
53% assuming full -7 and -1 other items so +530 to defense and Mdefense

4358defense/1795Mdefense

warrior total attack - (5500-8800. 2h weapon + 440-825attack ring) comes out to 5940-9625
now lets factor in the 210% from super dragon gems
12495-20212.5 attack

tao total armor/Mdefense - 550(armor)+11(braclet)+22(bag)+33(class headgear)+242(boots) = 858armor
1760(armor) +132(bag) +44(boots) +154(braclet) +242(class headgear) = 2332Mdef
add the 530 bonus

1388defense/2862Mdef

tao total M attack - 1650(backsword) +385(braclet) +143(bag) 2178 magic attack.
times the 210 nix bonus = 4574 magic attack. + 135 for using fixd tornado. = 4709.

so back to the original formula - (my attack - targets defense)x(bp bonus) + (my fan - targets tower) = final attack.

the warrior will deal (12495 - 1388)(1.0) + (not sure of the perfect fans attack bonus here or the perfect tower, ill assume 2800 for a fan and 2000 for a tower?)
that leaves us with a grand total minimum hit of 11907damage against a tao.
an absolute max hit of 19625.
with a melee hit.

the tao will deal (4709 - 1795)(1.0) +800fan/tower difference = 3714 with tornado.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
keep in mind that calculation was done with a warrior/tao, warriors have higher defense than other classes so i would say that nado is going to deal a a lot more on others, probably around 5-6k


overall recomendations, if this new system were to be implemented i would say we nerf 2h skills such as widestrike or the spear skill idk what its called to deal 110% damage and AoE skills such as herc deal 70% of total attack. fast blade 90%. VP/DT deal 80%.

recomendations for leveling-
i would say we nerf the crap outa enemies hp to scale with attack values.
and defense values for regular enemies would be relativley low. monsters attack would do slightly more than a warriors physical defense.


potions - it would be impossible for taos to kill anyone on an equal gear level if pots were allowed, so if it were up to me i would recomend that pots be heavily restricted to say 1 every 5 seconds.


it "seems" taos are getting the short end of the stick on this one, but be aware, that this is on EQUAL battle power. if a tao were to be slightly higher say 5bp? the damage increase is so significant. 60battlepower? thats gunna be like 8k with tornado, clearly enough to kill anyone.


i would also say for tortise gems to be increased to -10% when super to give 100bonus armor in whatever its socketed in. 60seems to low to me.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



edit- i forgot to calculate that taos have 7less blessed percentage. 70armor wouldnt make much of a difference for that attack value so i wont change what ive posted. just please be aware that its not accurate to 100% more like 98%
I think battlepower does get calculated last.

First your damage that you normally give is calculated. Then because of bp, that damage is placed into a category? which determines how much you're going to hit.

And then about the other bold part.

One-h and two-h in essence, have about the same raw attack. You can put two one handers if you can duel wield, but the off-hand weapon damage is halved. On the other hand, the real damage for 2-handers shows up when their skill hits. And this is why 2-h skill damage>the damage that one handers do. This only changes when you add stig to the equation for one-handers.

So, since you're doubling up the damage for two-handers, you'd basically have to remove their skills. Actually in this case then, 2-h would have the advantage since they have superior range and more attack.

This is from what I've read in this thread.
MyThirdAccount is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 11:27   #3
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThirdAccount View Post
I think battlepower does get calculated last.

First your damage that you normally give is calculated. Then because of bp, that damage is placed into a category? which determines how much you're going to hit.

And then about the other bold part.

One-h and two-h in essence, have about the same raw attack. You can put two one handers if you can duel wield, but the off-hand weapon damage is halved. On the other hand, the real damage for 2-handers shows up when their skill hits. And this is why 2-h skill damage>the damage that one handers do. This only changes when you add stig to the equation for one-handers.

So, since you're doubling up the damage for two-handers, you'd basically have to remove their skills. Actually in this case then, 2-h would have the advantage since they have superior range and more attack.

This is from what I've read in this thread.


i want battles to -last longer, and be skill based. not- deal more damage, and be gear based

my overall goal with this is simple, to prevent a level 140 from zaping on a level 129 for 198k.

i would want someone doing just over my max hp if theyre going to 1 hit me. it gives me incentive to get better.

as for one handers and 2handers, i do agree that the skills are very strong as what they are now. but lets be reasonable here. i hit you with 1 of my 1 handed blades k? thats a slashing motion and its going to either cut something off or hurt me badly. now, a 2handed weapon, thats designed to ram through and 1hko someone. 2handers should* be stronger than 2 1handed weapons. its not like your attacking at the same time with both of your weapons. however you should attack 2x as fast.

and those damages, are calculated at level 140 gear. the current level 128-130 gear gives those values of attack. so im effectivley cutting out 10levels of gear stat difference.

but without 1handers and 2handers giving a certain amount of damage at the minimum its impossible to 1hko anyone on equal gear, which is what i support.

any more damage than what ive said is simply far too much for any weapon.
if it were any lower than what ive said no one would die because of an inventory full of pots.

if potions were reworked then the damages ive said and the whole armor system mentioned above would be perfect. zero flaws.
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb

Last edited by kyle1234512; 05-22-2012 at 11:46.
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 12:31   #4
MyThirdAccount
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 10,142
MyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1234512 View Post
i want battles to -last longer, and be skill based. not- deal more damage, and be gear based

my overall goal with this is simple, to prevent a level 140 from zaping on a level 129 for 198k.

i would want someone doing just over my max hp if theyre going to 1 hit me. it gives me incentive to get better.

as for one handers and 2handers, i do agree that the skills are very strong as what they are now. but lets be reasonable here. i hit you with 1 of my 1 handed blades k? thats a slashing motion and its going to either cut something off or hurt me badly. now, a 2handed weapon, thats designed to ram through and 1hko someone. 2handers should* be stronger than 2 1handed weapons. its not like your attacking at the same time with both of your weapons. however you should attack 2x as fast.

and those damages, are calculated at level 140 gear. the current level 128-130 gear gives those values of attack. so im effectivley cutting out 10levels of gear stat difference.

but without 1handers and 2handers giving a certain amount of damage at the minimum its impossible to 1hko anyone on equal gear, which is what i support.

any more damage than what ive said is simply far too much for any weapon.
if it were any lower than what ive said no one would die because of an inventory full of pots.

if potions were reworked then the damages ive said and the whole armor system mentioned above would be perfect. zero flaws.
The thing is, the attack you're giving 2-h is going to be a lot more than what penetration would hit.
MyThirdAccount is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 13:01   #5
StillHeart
Heartless
 
StillHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,388
StillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond repute
As much as I think all the numbers of the game do need rework, your values are extremely skewed in favor of warriors.

This shouldn't be the case anymore, especially with the upcoming release of new op skills that is going to ruin the game by providing warriors with a herc skill while wearing 2 hander.

Second, your 2 handed total damage is so flawed. One handed weapons receive a 40% deduction in total damage if it is on the second hand. Your 2 hander is well over 2x even having 2 full 1 handed. Which is dumb. On top of that it is stronger then katana.

You clearly wanted warrior to have even more m defense and defense. The summation of points they receive from armor is 1200, and trojan receives a ttoal of 850. lol.

Your shield receives basically all the stats of neck, boots and then some.

Summation of points you receive from helmet is 280, and the class that is even close to you is troja with 200.

As much as I'm all for reworking TQs stupid system, you are in favor of OPing warriors. And they are going to be EXTREMELY OP when their skills come out.

At the end of all this, trojan is going to be the ****tiest class. Not warrior.
StillHeart is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 13:19   #6
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
As much as I think all the numbers of the game do need rework, your values are extremely skewed in favor of warriors.

This shouldn't be the case anymore, especially with the upcoming release of new op skills that is going to ruin the game by providing warriors with a herc skill while wearing 2 hander.

Second, your 2 handed total damage is so flawed. One handed weapons receive a 40% deduction in total damage if it is on the second hand. Your 2 hander is well over 2x even having 2 full 1 handed. Which is dumb. On top of that it is stronger then katana.

You clearly wanted warrior to have even more m defense and defense. The summation of points they receive from armor is 1200, and trojan receives a ttoal of 850. lol.

Your shield receives basically all the stats of neck, boots and then some.

Summation of points you receive from helmet is 280, and the class that is even close to you is troja with 200.

As much as I'm all for reworking TQs stupid system, you are in favor of OPing warriors. And they are going to be EXTREMELY OP when their skills come out.

At the end of all this, trojan is going to be the ****tiest class. Not warrior.

well if you think warrior is too high thats your opinion. but lets again, do some math here. i need to melee you, you need to right click and you hit me.... seems fair.....

yea.... no, not fair at all.

TQ even said it themselves, warriors are suposed to be tankish, are they that now? nope. if you think its too high give a value that you think it should be.

and like i said, i do agree that those attacks are too high. but the simple fact is if theyre any lower people out pot all the damage thats done.
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 13:23   #7
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
the new warrior skill is the equivalent to charge for pirates. its not a herc type ability at all. and even then its only when mounted. so we wont be able to use it in the arena or pk turny
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 16:12   #8
StillHeart
Heartless
 
StillHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,388
StillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1234512 View Post
well if you think warrior is too high thats your opinion. but lets again, do some math here. i need to melee you, you need to right click and you hit me.... seems fair.....

yea.... no, not fair at all.

TQ even said it themselves, warriors are suposed to be tankish, are they that now? nope. if you think its too high give a value that you think it should be.

and like i said, i do agree that those attacks are too high. but the simple fact is if theyre any lower people out pot all the damage thats done.
Fact of the matter is you still have a herc skill. Whether it is usable in arena is one thing, but you can use it in guild wars and what not. The damage will still be ridiculously high and all they need to do is right click, and does more damage then any other class.

Not to mention you have 2 upcoming skills, the defensive and m-defensive boosts.

In addition your speedgun does like what, 210% more damage? In addition to your suggestion where they have essentially 2x more damage then anyone else. That's like 3x more damage then the max of any class lol.

Please don't undersell warrior. lol. You do have block. You do have a **** tonne of hp. You have the xp skill that increases your defense. You get the bonus melee damage because of perseverance. You are literally the only class that can survive way higher bp attacks without stgs. So ya, you are tank. Relative to every other class.

I think your organizing should be like every class gets 1000 points in a certain sector, or a total of 3000 points in all armories.

So if you were to make warrior it would be:
Warrior: 800 def 200 m def
Trojan: 700 def 300 m def
Taoist: 300 def 700 m def
Archer: 500 def 500 m def

Something like that.
StillHeart is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 16:52   #9
MyThirdAccount
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 10,142
MyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
Fact of the matter is you still have a herc skill. Whether it is usable in arena is one thing, but you can use it in guild wars and what not. The damage will still be ridiculously high and all they need to do is right click, and does more damage then any other class.

Not to mention you have 2 upcoming skills, the defensive and m-defensive boosts.

In addition your speedgun does like what, 210% more damage? In addition to your suggestion where they have essentially 2x more damage then anyone else. That's like 3x more damage then the max of any class lol.

Please don't undersell warrior. lol. You do have block. You do have a **** tonne of hp. You have the xp skill that increases your defense. You get the bonus melee damage because of perseverance. You are literally the only class that can survive way higher bp attacks without stgs. So ya, you are tank. Relative to every other class.

I think your organizing should be like every class gets 1000 points in a certain sector, or a total of 3000 points in all armories.

So if you were to make warrior it would be:
Warrior: 800 def 200 m def
Trojan: 700 def 300 m def
Taoist: 300 def 700 m def
Archer: 500 def 500 m def

Something like that.
Herc dmg for warriors is gonna be like old herc. Something like it.
MyThirdAccount is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 16:59   #10
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
Fact of the matter is you still have a herc skill. Whether it is usable in arena is one thing, but you can use it in guild wars and what not. The damage will still be ridiculously high and all they need to do is right click, and does more damage then any other class.

Not to mention you have 2 upcoming skills, the defensive and m-defensive boosts.

In addition your speedgun does like what, 210% more damage? In addition to your suggestion where they have essentially 2x more damage then anyone else. That's like 3x more damage then the max of any class lol.

Please don't undersell warrior. lol. You do have block. You do have a **** tonne of hp. You have the xp skill that increases your defense. You get the bonus melee damage because of perseverance. You are literally the only class that can survive way higher bp attacks without stgs. So ya, you are tank. Relative to every other class.

I think your organizing should be like every class gets 1000 points in a certain sector, or a total of 3000 points in all armories.

So if you were to make warrior it would be:
Warrior: 800 def 200 m def
Trojan: 700 def 300 m def
Taoist: 300 def 700 m def
Archer: 500 def 500 m def

Something like that.
warriors DONT have a herc type skill. the skill charge* is comming out with the next 2 defense abilities youve mentioned. VP/DT are exactly the same as FB/SS


if you bothered* to read the whole thing you would see my recomendations to skills, i bet you didnt read past idea 5).

as for your 1000based armor idea i could get behind it, it seems reasonable. but what makes a warrior have less magic resist than say a trojan? they both wear plate equipment.

and again, pick any 2 classes that are equaly geared. any combination at all. so long as theyre equally geared, the class with the better/stronger ability always wins.

the new skills that increase defense/magic defense. the regular defense ability is WORTHLESS. currently higher BP just goes right through my defense stat. as of now, i have 5600armor on my warrior, i pop shield, i should now be at 16800defense, and head to guild war. i get 1 shot hercd for 48k. you do the math.

the magic zone for immunity to magic is retarded overpowered. ill just pop that next to the guild pole, oh look, fire taos are useless.

block is amazing, but only if you can get it to say 50%. but even with block, how is a trojan 1hko hercing. the current attack values on all classes are broken right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

my main recomendation was to change the way damage was calculated and that was the very first formula.
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb

Last edited by kyle1234512; 05-22-2012 at 17:04.
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 17:58   #11
StillHeart
Heartless
 
StillHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,388
StillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThirdAccount View Post
Herc dmg for warriors is gonna be like old herc. Something like it.
Heard it was 90%

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1234512 View Post
warriors DONT have a herc type skill. the skill charge* is comming out with the next 2 defense abilities youve mentioned. VP/DT are exactly the same as FB/SS


if you bothered* to read the whole thing you would see my recomendations to skills, i bet you didnt read past idea 5).

as for your 1000based armor idea i could get behind it, it seems reasonable. but what makes a warrior have less magic resist than say a trojan? they both wear plate equipment.

and again, pick any 2 classes that are equaly geared. any combination at all. so long as theyre equally geared, the class with the better/stronger ability always wins.

the new skills that increase defense/magic defense. the regular defense ability is WORTHLESS. currently higher BP just goes right through my defense stat. as of now, i have 5600armor on my warrior, i pop shield, i should now be at 16800defense, and head to guild war. i get 1 shot hercd for 48k. you do the math.

the magic zone for immunity to magic is retarded overpowered. ill just pop that next to the guild pole, oh look, fire taos are useless.

block is amazing, but only if you can get it to say 50%. but even with block, how is a trojan 1hko hercing. the current attack values on all classes are broken right now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

my main recomendation was to change the way damage was calculated and that was the very first formula.
The skill charge is essentially a herc type skill. That's what I meant. A simple right click skill that has a large aoe range. Warriors are getting that.

And that is correct. Take any 2 characters and do that, in the near future trojan is going to suck. Their versatility is obsolete and all they have is herc. If every class gets hercules they are pointlessly useless.

I don't know what would make them have more m-defense. But if warrior has more defense, same or more m defense, more attack (according to your suggestion) more skills, more hp...what does trojan have. lol.

All I'm saying is your suggestion is skewed in favor of warrior. And I would be all for it, if they weren't getting newer skills that are going to make them either OP or at par with every OP class. (Dependent on TQ)

As much as I hate hercules, it was a fair argument trojans used to defend it. What do they really get from nerfing it? Having the ability to fb or ss. Or possibly turn into a useless golem or heal 1.3k lol.

I do like your suggestion. It just needs some work in making it fair. If you give warriors more defense, they should lack in damage, etc etc.

ps. What's your bp and what's the trojans bp. Is he criticaling you? lol.
StillHeart is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 18:26   #12
kyle1234512
Registered User
 
kyle1234512's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA All The Way!!!
Posts: 521
kyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond reputekyle1234512 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
Heard it was 90%



The skill charge is essentially a herc type skill. That's what I meant. A simple right click skill that has a large aoe range. Warriors are getting that.

And that is correct. Take any 2 characters and do that, in the near future trojan is going to suck. Their versatility is obsolete and all they have is herc. If every class gets hercules they are pointlessly useless.

I don't know what would make them have more m-defense. But if warrior has more defense, same or more m defense, more attack (according to your suggestion) more skills, more hp...what does trojan have. lol.

All I'm saying is your suggestion is skewed in favor of warrior. And I would be all for it, if they weren't getting newer skills that are going to make them either OP or at par with every OP class. (Dependent on TQ)

As much as I hate hercules, it was a fair argument trojans used to defend it. What do they really get from nerfing it? Having the ability to fb or ss. Or possibly turn into a useless golem or heal 1.3k lol.

I do like your suggestion. It just needs some work in making it fair. If you give warriors more defense, they should lack in damage, etc etc.

ps. What's your bp and what's the trojans bp. Is he criticaling you? lol.

i cant check someones gear mid battle =/

asside from that i get what your saying. but the fact is, 2h handed weapons are all about the melee. and thats how it should be. warriors shouldnt get a ranged skill.

as for trojans, cyclone, the 1 legal speed hack. need i say more? best chasing move, if only TQ didnt have lagging servers.

"if" my system were implemented, warriors would be overpowered as ever, but that would only be if TQ adds those new skills, then warriors would be flat out unkillable.

as for the 2handed damage, again, its high, but its only to threaten the 1hko making pots useless.


what would you say to 1handers doing 950-1400.
and 2handers 1600-2800.
__________________
How many bulkers does it take to change a lightbulb?

the answer is zero, no bulker would change a lightbulb, he would just pay TQ to change it for him. And TQ would screw it up, trying to jam the wrong size bulb in the socket, damaging both the socket and the bulb
kyle1234512 is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-22-2012, 20:51   #13
StillHeart
Heartless
 
StillHeart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,388
StillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond reputeStillHeart has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle1234512 View Post
i cant check someones gear mid battle =/

asside from that i get what your saying. but the fact is, 2h handed weapons are all about the melee. and thats how it should be. warriors shouldnt get a ranged skill.

as for trojans, cyclone, the 1 legal speed hack. need i say more? best chasing move, if only TQ didnt have lagging servers.

"if" my system were implemented, warriors would be overpowered as ever, but that would only be if TQ adds those new skills, then warriors would be flat out unkillable.

as for the 2handed damage, again, its high, but its only to threaten the 1hko making pots useless.


what would you say to 1handers doing 950-1400.
and 2handers 1600-2800.
That is true, trojans do have cyclone. But it is useless for leveling and doesn't really do much in the pvp aspect. If you fb it is 100x harder, and the only thing it is good for is chasing someone down and hercing. Then again there are mounts which kind of null cyclone completely.

I would agree with the 1600-2800, if warriors didn't have a ranged skill or the new herc. But they do have them and are going to get the future skills. If they implement the 1600-2800, I think the dt and vf should do less percent in damage if 2 handers have 1600-2800.

But hey, it's TQ xD are they really going to listen. I mean don't get me wrong, i like the suggestion. BP is ruining the game, but TQ doesn't listen to anyone except them selves. Hopefully they do something that isn't dumb. :P
StillHeart is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-23-2012, 00:15   #14
MyThirdAccount
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York
Posts: 10,142
MyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond reputeMyThirdAccount has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
That is true, trojans do have cyclone. But it is useless for leveling and doesn't really do much in the pvp aspect. If you fb it is 100x harder, and the only thing it is good for is chasing someone down and hercing. Then again there are mounts which kind of null cyclone completely.

I would agree with the 1600-2800, if warriors didn't have a ranged skill or the new herc. But they do have them and are going to get the future skills. If they implement the 1600-2800, I think the dt and vf should do less percent in damage if 2 handers have 1600-2800.

But hey, it's TQ xD are they really going to listen. I mean don't get me wrong, i like the suggestion. BP is ruining the game, but TQ doesn't listen to anyone except them selves. Hopefully they do something that isn't dumb. :P
But its just the herc of one weapon lol. It's going to be hella weaker than vf itself.

Here's what a two-hander is.

A one-hander with the ability to hit the damage of two one-handers when its skill hits.

lol, I think I get why you're calling warriors OP. Because you think their damage with vf is the same as a non-stigged tro with fb. Nope that's not the case lol. It's hella weaker.

EDIT: Here's the evidence.

Spear at 140= 3008-4218

Club at 140= 2545-4437

The +n values each one gets are supposed to be the same. And since other classes can duel wield, the get +n bonuses for two of those weapons. And yes, +n bonus doesn't get halved.

Which is why the only time a warrior hits his real damage is when he hits with the 2h skill. Vf/dt are more like 40% herc lol. They can't kill anyone.

Last edited by MyThirdAccount; 05-23-2012 at 00:47.
MyThirdAccount is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Old 05-23-2012, 00:20   #15
ShareNRespect
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 29
ShareNRespect is on a distinguished road
no... too much to read. I have my laziness to the limit..
Reading this is far too longs.
Just get down to the business with short and simpled
ShareNRespect is offline   Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:44.


You Rated this Thread: