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Old 08-05-2008, 13:32   #1
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Tortoise Gems Vs Attack Gems

This guide shows mathematically that it is advantageous to use 8 Tortoise Gems and 4 or 6 Attack Gems depending on your class.

My quick Tortoise Guide for gem selection.

Most people go for Attack Gems, because maximizing your attack increases your chance of one hitting someone, but it isn't worth it compared to an alternative I am showing you now because I can make it so not only do you not one hit me but I hit you for more than you hit me, Tortoise Gems.

Now it may seem like you are not getting as much from them - because they reduce 6% of damage for a super but a super attack gem increases your attack by 15%. But that's why you need a perfect combination of gems rather than going just one way or the other - the other reason this is a requirement is damage reduction from Tortoise Gems is capped at 50% (and it being in increments of 6% 48% is the maximum you would ever want to achieve).

Here's Why tortoise gems work, Your base attack whatever that might be will be represented by a percentile, 100 being your base. You can increase your attack by up to 210 percent with dragon gems, making what you hit against someones defence 310. Now with tortoise gems being capped at 48% that only leaves you with 4 Gems on Taoists Archers and anyone else using a poleweapon, and 6 gems on Warriors with shields and Trojans dual wielding. On a Ninja, Trojan or Warrior this allows you to still increase your Attack by 90% hitting 190 against an opponent, compared to 310 it is only 1/3 less attack with 8/14 gems going towards something else!

Trojan/Warrior/Ninja Vs Trojan/Warrior/Ninja
310 Attack (-48%) Vs 190 Attack

The attack trojan hits for only 161.2 base attack, and you hit for 190, this basically simplifies the fight to they have there gear with 4 Attack gems, and you have yours with 6. Considerable advantage.

Toist/Archer Vs Taoist/Archer
290 Attack (-48%) Vs 160 Attack

The attack build hits for 145.6 and the defence build hits for 160.

But the real concern for the 12 gem builds are, you have to go up against 14 gem builds in pvp. Lets balance it then.

Trojan/Warrior/Ninja Vs Taoist/Archer
310 Attack (-48%) Vs 160 Attack

The attack build hits for 161.2 base attack, which is only 1.2 percent more than what you are hitting for, compared to your max 280 vs their 310 without tortoise gems, a 30pct disadvantage. This is a considerably more fair fight.

Overall the best combination is 8 Tortoise Gems and 4 or 6 Attack Gems.
Heres the chart I used to calculate everything for you nerds who are interested.
Attached Picture is of my warrior equipped with level 70 trojan armor being Fbed by someone equipped with +12 blades and living, I am only 126 and first reborn in this picture.
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Last edited by nicholascobalt; 01-02-2010 at 11:46.
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Old 08-05-2008, 14:43   #2
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...So... What do we use o.O?
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Old 08-05-2008, 14:58   #3
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Gem combos were always the way to go.

This applies best in the cases of same dmg VS same dmg.

In the case of a Fire tao wanting to hit a melee char, Full Blast SPG is still the best way to go.
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Old 08-05-2008, 15:02   #4
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Great little guide.

Very helpful, nice stuff!
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Old 08-05-2008, 15:19   #5
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Wow, I just re-read and noticed that your example included Taoists.

I'll tell you why STGs arent great for mg-Fires (some Fires do go melee, after all) : all players have a natural m-damage reduction. I cba looking up how much it is, the info is somewhere here on the forums. (I think 50%...truly I cant remember, sorry)

So no matter how much m-damage you can dish out, even a non-equipped player benefits from x% reduction. Even with a couple STGs socketed, a Tao will take considerable damage, considering the fact that getting 1hit by a tro often means you took way more damage than your hp and def could handle. Might as well try to do as much as you can and avoid the hits.
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Old 08-05-2008, 15:34   #6
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Originally Posted by Drixt View Post
Wow, I just re-read and noticed that your example included Taoists.

I'll tell you why STGs arent great for mg-Fires (some Fires do go melee, after all) : all players have a natural m-damage reduction. I cba looking up how much it is, the info is somewhere here on the forums. (I think 50%...truly I cant remember, sorry)

So no matter how much m-damage you can dish out, even a non-equipped player benefits from x% reduction. Even with a couple STGs socketed, a Tao will take considerable damage, considering the fact that getting 1hit by a tro often means you took way more damage than your hp and def could handle. Might as well try to do as much as you can and avoid the hits.
I hate that there's the "innate" m-def...It should really be removed

Anyhow, I think it's 30%, but I'm not sure either...
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Old 08-05-2008, 19:37   #7
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I hate that there's the "innate" m-def...It should really be removed

Anyhow, I think it's 30%, but I'm not sure either...

Any "innate" m-def should definitely be removed. Taos would be a more imposing threat at any lvl, like most trojans/warriors. (Minus the ridiculously low lvl ones of course)
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Old 08-05-2008, 19:41   #8
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Any "innate" m-def should definitely be removed. Taos would be a more imposing threat at any lvl, like most trojans/warriors. (Minus the ridiculously low lvl ones of course)
I hope low-lvl ones aren't too much of a threat

[Then again, "as is", a ridiculously low-lvl tro CAN kill a medium-lvl fire in 'most' cases, given that the tro hits first (thus you don't even need to aim, since it can be melee as a surprise hit) ]
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Old 08-05-2008, 23:15   #9
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Yep, any suggestions as to what else I should include in this mini-guide?

I posted a more in depth one as an article recently if your interested you can find a link somewhere on the mainsight I'm sure...
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:21   #10
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Yep, any suggestions as to what else I should include in this mini-guide?

I posted a more in depth one as an article recently if your interested you can find a link somewhere on the mainsight I'm sure...
PM'd you.
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:59   #11
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Yep, any suggestions as to what else I should include in this mini-guide?

I posted a more in depth one as an article recently if your interested you can find a link somewhere on the mainsight I'm sure...
Well, like I said. Every player has that m-dmg reduction bonus right off the bat. So if you're making examples for Taoists and SPG/STG combos you have to take that in consideration.
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Old 09-02-2008, 16:12   #12
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That extra damage reduction may as well be considered the base damage because theres no way to alter that really... except rb-ing into another class I supose.
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Old 09-02-2008, 22:02   #13
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this is a great suggestion and I'm really considering to try it out. Since I have nothing else to do in CO anymore.
One problem though. With Trojans this would only be good for those that 1 hit you. Since their damage will be reduced by a half they will no longer 1-hit. (their 12k dmg will be reduced to 6k) And since you don't really make that much damage (your 3k will go down to 1.8k) I can see the advantage. You can easily pot the rest of the hp.
But if you're a stronger trojan and the weaker ones hit you for 2k (from battle power difference and bless) and you 1-hit them. You will have the disadvantage from this since their damage will be reduced to 1k (not a big deal) and you will probably no longer 1-hit, they can also use pots.
Also for archers in GW. Using STGs would be a really stupid idea, since archers knock out the weaker waters and hit the pole. Therefore you need SDGs for that.
those are my 2-cents. Please comment.

EDIT:
Could you post a screeny of how it's working out for you. I want to see how much dmg you take from the big boys.

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Old 09-03-2008, 02:15   #14
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Great Guide, this should help Melee Players alot =P
Oh and Archers xD
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Old 09-03-2008, 07:33   #15
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wth hell is this?
you make the raw data SO hard to read...
can i ask what is the base attack of chracter you are using?
or is it just a percentage?

yes yes, the natural M-def is 30%
so m damage always x0.7 when you calculate
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