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Old 03-17-2010, 11:17   #196
MunKop
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MUNKS HERE!!!

Srs bsnss
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Old 03-17-2010, 13:08   #197
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Originally Posted by Arronax View Post
No, that's the time it took from the supposed events took place until they were written down :F

Events|--|--------------------------| Nao
.............X.................. {2k years}



X being when they were written down. Yeah, I didn't bother making the proportions correct, sue me :F
yeah, that's what the "or somethign" part was about =X
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Old 03-17-2010, 13:45   #198
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bible aka fairy book is not evidence
someone telling me something is not evidence
that christianity is big doesnt mean ****, look at suicide bombing its big in iraq and has nothing miraculous about it
why did the bearded fairy make saturn? id love to know that lol
i still havent got any proof of gods existence in this thread
people are stupid, alot of them doing the exact same stupid thing only shows how pathetic humans are

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Old 03-17-2010, 14:49   #199
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MUNKS HERE!!!

Srs bsnss
MunKs still here

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Old 03-17-2010, 15:27   #200
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Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher View Post
bible aka fairy book is not evidence
someone telling me something is not evidence
that christianity is big doesnt mean ****, look at suicide bombing its big in iraq and has nothing miraculous about it
why did the bearded fairy make saturn? id love to know that lol
i still havent got any proof of gods existence in this thread
people are stupid, alot of them doing the exact same stupid thing only shows how pathetic humans are

k
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Old 03-17-2010, 16:35   #201
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Munk is proof there is a god. Only a power of a higher being can create such a body like his. Chiseled by the hammer of Thor, to the curve of his every ab, is his awesomeness. Even a tiny shred of his hair shows no imperfection, it is not plausible that such a creature is not made from anything but a divine power. He is a miracle.
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Old 03-17-2010, 16:59   #202
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If thor wasn't the god of thunder, why would the norse religion have started up? It's the same damned thing, and the logic is flawed as SHYIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEET.
Not comparable.
I don't think you understand the significance of the resurrection in Christianity.

What is Christianity about, in a nutshell?
1. People rebel/sin against God.
2. People must die as punishment.
3. God sent Jesus to die instead.
4. Jesus' death and resurrection saves people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15
"12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men."
Summary is, if Jesus didn't rise, he didn't save us from our sins, and we're all doomed. So if he didnt rise, why bother being Christian?

Christianity hinges in the most literal sense on the resurrection.

Quote:
what ressurection? Never happened. Prove that it ever did, without "WAAH WAAH christianity started therefore eet eez all treeeww." OHWAIT YOU CAN'T! There are no records of it ever happening outside of the bible! Clearly, either there's proof that it DID happen, else it DIDN'T. The lack of evidence of it happening IS the proof of it not happening. GEDDIT? I didn't think I'd have to explain something as obvious as this to you.
I'll try again.

You're just ignoring the evidence, because you don't think it's evidence. You're not thinking about it or analysing it.

If something happens in the past, it has effects on the future.
Those effects are evidence of what happened in the past.

Christianity started up because Jesus rose from the dead (according to what the disciples said).

History (read: history, not the Bible) says that Christianity started up amongst persecution.
History shows there was nothing for the disciples to gain except death and persecution.
Reasoning and logic shows that they weren't lying (else why would they die for a lie they made up with no benefits?)
Reasoning, logic and history shows that they did go to the right tomb (otherwise someone would have shown them the right one and got them to shut up about "Jesus resurrected!".)
Reasoning and logic tells you that they were probably telling the truth.

Bias tells you "people can't rise from the dead, I'd rather believe he didn't"
Bias tells you "well... I'd rather believe they were lying, despite the evidence against it"

So pleaassseeee, don't tell me there is no evidence. It's in history, it's in reasoning.

And you cant say "power over people" trumps all that evidence.

What do you mean by this?

You mean the disciples lied about Jesus resurrecting to get 'power over people'?
The whole "they lied" thing is a weak case with no evidence. There is no evidence (on the contrary, probably the opposite) of 'power over people'.

I don't understand how you can believe such a hypothesis without any evidence!

Quote:
Maybe they believed that "teh trewth"(TM) would convince everyone, converting anyone and everyone to christianity immediately? =) Yeah, I can't prove that, nor can you disprove it. marvellous isn't it? =)
We can't prove their motives 100%

What we can do is look at history, I repeat, HISTORY, to see how they acted and make judgment on their motives. And from HISTORY and logic, it's very unlikely they would live their lives with no status or wealth, suffering persecution and death for a lie they knew or they made up.

A REASONABLE person doesn't bypass that kind of evidence.

Quote:
The bible itself. ^^ If some parts of the bible are metaphorical, why wouldn't for example the part about jesus healing a dying man (or w\e it was) miracurously be a metaphor for a traveling medicine man who cured a sick person by way of medicine? It very well could be. It's just a hypothesis, but there's no way you could ever disprove it. ^^;
If some parts of the book "A collection of Australian writings" are poems, then why couldn't the newspaper articles in them be poems?

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You're saying Genesis and the gospels are the same?!

That's why I said earlier, we need to make a distinction between the OT and the NT.

Forget Genesis, think 'Gospels'. These are written as like, biographies, or as history, historical narrative. You can't say "well, in one book it was metaphorical, so in this other book written 1000 years later by another person, it's also metaphorical".

Quote:
oh, like, say, 2 thousand years?
I'm 99.99% sure the NT in the Bible I have on my desk is the same (apart from language, same as in same meaning) as the words that were written down by the apostles.
I'd like to see you argue "2000 years of chinese whispers", because again, the evidence is very against you.

Quote:
Your case is so weak, and the only straw you're hanging by is "christianity started -> jesus ressurected". I don't actually have to do jack **** to support MY case.
It's a stronger case than "they lied and wanted to gain power".
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Old 03-17-2010, 17:02   #203
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Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
wall of blasphemy
What a waste of time lol.
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Old 03-17-2010, 18:04   #204
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Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
Not comparable.
I don't think you understand the significance of the resurrection in Christianity.
I don't think you understand how ridiculous you're being when you're treating christianity as something unique in a religious perspective. Other religions have started up. Other religions have continued to exist. Other religions have just as much (or should I say little) evidence to back them up. Christianity is in no way, shape or form unique. I don't give a **** what christianity is about. This is about the statement "Christianity started up, therefore Jesus' ressurection must have happened" (or something along the lines of that). Oh, and I do know how important the ressurection is in christianity. That's why you keep being unreasonable and sometimes plain stupid when it comes to discussing it.

What is Christianity about, in a nutshell?
1. People rebel/sin against God.
2. People must die as punishment.
3. God sent Jesus to die instead.
4. Jesus' death and resurrection saves people.



Summary is, if Jesus didn't rise, he didn't save us from our sins, and we're all doomed. So if he didnt rise, why bother being Christian?

Christianity hinges in the most literal sense on the resurrection.



I'll try again.

You're just ignoring the evidence, because you don't think it's evidence. You're not thinking about it or analysing it.

If something happens in the past, it has effects on the future.
Those effects are evidence of what happened in the past.

Christianity started up because Jesus rose from the dead (according to what the disciples said).

History (read: history, not the Bible) says that Christianity started up amongst persecution.
History shows there was nothing for the disciples to gain except death and persecution.
Reasoning and logic shows that they weren't lying (else why would they die for a lie they made up with no benefits?)
Reasoning, logic and history shows that they did go to the right tomb (otherwise someone would have shown them the right one and got them to shut up about "Jesus resurrected!".)
Reasoning and logic tells you that they were probably telling the truth.

Bias tells you "people can't rise from the dead, I'd rather believe he didn't"
Bias tells you "well... I'd rather believe they were lying, despite the evidence against it"

No, my only bias is "I'm not going to believe that until there is a reason to". You still haven't provided one.

So pleaassseeee, don't tell me there is no evidence. It's in history, it's in reasoning.

And you cant say "power over people" trumps all that evidence.

What do you mean by this?

You mean the disciples lied about Jesus resurrecting to get 'power over people'?
The whole "they lied" thing is a weak case with no evidence. There is no evidence (on the contrary, probably the opposite) of 'power over people'.

I don't understand how you can believe such a hypothesis without any evidence!


We can't prove their motives 100%

What we can do is look at history, I repeat, HISTORY, to see how they acted and make judgment on their motives. And from HISTORY and logic, it's very unlikely they would live their lives with no status or wealth, suffering persecution and death for a lie they knew or they made up.

A REASONABLE person doesn't bypass that kind of evidence.



If some parts of the book "A collection of Australian writings" are poems, then why couldn't the newspaper articles in them be poems?

-_________________-

You're saying Genesis and the gospels are the same?!

That's why I said earlier, we need to make a distinction between the OT and the NT.

Forget Genesis, think 'Gospels'. These are written as like, biographies, or as history, historical narrative. You can't say "well, in one book it was metaphorical, so in this other book written 1000 years later by another person, it's also metaphorical".


I'm 99.99% sure the NT in the Bible I have on my desk is the same (apart from language, same as in same meaning) as the words that were written down by the apostles.
I'd like to see you argue "2000 years of chinese whispers", because again, the evidence is very against you.


It's a stronger case than "they lied and wanted to gain power".
I'm heading for bed now, so I'll make this very short and re-read your post tomorrow.


You seem to be misunderstand my theories with what I actually believe to be true. I'm just tossing them out there to illustrate something.


I'm not arguing my case at all, I'm content with arguing against yours, so it's more like: "Jeebuz dieded on cross and ressurected -> christianity is teh trewth" vs " .... No."




Main point is in blue text. Wrote a bit more than I intended to but ah well.


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Old 03-17-2010, 18:35   #205
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I'm heading for bed now, so I'll make this very short and re-read your post tomorrow.

You seem to be misunderstand my theories with what I actually believe to be true. I'm just tossing them out there to illustrate something.

I'm not arguing my case at all, I'm content with arguing against yours, so it's more like: "Jeebuz dieded on cross and ressurected -> christianity is teh trewth" vs " .... No."

Main point is in blue text. Wrote a bit more than I intended to but ah well.
?
Seems to be the way things go a lot of the time....

Remaining claim-less, so one does not have to 'prove' anything.

So your theories... are not actually what you believe to be true?

I don't see how you can argue against something without providing an argument.

Your 'argument' consists of "I don't like your evidence" and "here's an unsupported theory I may or may not believe".

If I'm saying "Jesus resurrected, here is my evidence", it's not a convincing argument to say "I don't believe it, and I don't like your evidence".

If you want to have a convincing argument against it, then you'll need to:
1. Show me why the evidence (each bit) I've brought forward is not valid, not just state what you think and make bad comparisons.
2. Provide some sort of alternative explanation with 'proper proof'.

"You haven't given evidence" isn't an argument.
"I have an unsupported hypothesis/explanation which COULD have happened.. maybe" also, is not an argument.

I mean, according to you I could go into a lecture by Richard Dawkins about evolution, block my ears, and at the end shout at him "You still haven't given any evidence! God could have done it!" and hence, prove evolution wrong.

If you're not going to do that, if you're not going to bite your lip and make some sort of supported claim, then why are you here?

Trolling?-

-oh wait
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Old 03-17-2010, 18:52   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher View Post
bible aka fairy book is not evidence
someone telling me something is not evidence
that christianity is big doesnt mean ****, look at suicide bombing its big in iraq and has nothing miraculous about it
why did the bearded fairy make saturn? id love to know that lol
i still havent got any proof of gods existence in this thread
people are stupid, alot of them doing the exact same stupid thing only shows how pathetic humans are

k
Well first God isn't a man floating around on a thrown in space somewhere. This view is considered heresy by all most.

It goes back to The first Russian cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin when he was asked "Did you see God up there?" to which he replied No i didn't see him anywhere.

And when the American astronaut was asked the same question and he replied "I saw God everywhere."


Actually if you want to have a good mental experiment

Albert Einstein's theory of special relativity concerning structure of space-time suggest that all time exist on a plain and is always in existence.

One experiment was time dilation with the 2 clocks 1 left stationary and 1 flown at a rapid speed shows that the both clocks experience their own time relative to themselves. This is caused by simple inference of time dilation due to relative velocity.

So if all time is relative and remains in existence including all past present, and future event, what does that do to free will and the Sovereignty of God?
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Old 03-17-2010, 18:53   #207
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Quote:
I don't think you understand how ridiculous you're being when you're treating christianity as something unique in a religious perspective. Other religions have started up. Other religions have continued to exist. Other religions have just as much (or should I say little) evidence to back them up. Christianity is in no way, shape or form unique. I don't give a **** what christianity is about. This is about the statement "Christianity started up, therefore Jesus' ressurection must have happened" (or something along the lines of that). Oh, and I do know how important the ressurection is in christianity. That's why you keep being unreasonable and sometimes plain stupid when it comes to discussing it.
The thing is, your examples are incomparable.

"If Thor was not the god of thunder, then the norse relgion would not have started".
The thing is, what evidence is there that Thor was the god of thunder? none!

"If Jesus did not resurrect, then the Christian religion would not have started"
The thing is, what evidence is there that Jesus did resurrect?
Everything I have posted.

History and reasoning support it.

Christianity hinges on an historical fact.
Norse religion, if it hinges on Thor being the god of thunder, it hinges on some mythological "fact".

They're not comparable.
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Old 03-17-2010, 19:13   #208
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Originally Posted by Ryuzaki View Post
/Acknowledges Munk

Munk is proof there is a god. Only a power of a higher being can create such a body like his. Chiseled by the hammer of Thor, to the curve of his every ab, is his awesomeness. Even a tiny shred of his hair shows no imperfection, it is not plausible that such a creature is not made from anything but a divine power. He is a miracle.
I approve!

There's gotta be a God. If there isn't then who do you think is bowling when it thunders?

Stupid people.
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Old 03-17-2010, 20:04   #209
ChaoticArcher
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omg he keeps saying he has evidence but doesnt give any LOL super fail

the way thou thinks of thor and his flaws is the same we think of your dirty bible

god aka magic fairy is the oposite of science

for ****s sake why wont you tell me why did the fairy make the planets?

im STILL laughting when i see mitsu noob use the word "evidence" lololol
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Old 03-17-2010, 20:10   #210
CheekyPunk27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher View Post
omg he keeps saying he has evidence but doesnt give any LOL super fail
Are you blind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
History (read: history, not the Bible) says that Christianity started up amongst persecution.
History shows there was nothing for the disciples to gain except death and persecution.
Reasoning and logic shows that they weren't lying (else why would they die for a lie they made up with no benefits?)
Reasoning, logic and history shows that they did go to the right tomb (otherwise someone would have shown them the right one and got them to shut up about "Jesus resurrected!".)
Reasoning and logic tells you that they were probably telling the truth.
Quote:
the way thou thinks of thor and his flaws is the same we think of your dirty bible
You think the resurrection is some sort of mythological 'fact'?

Did you read what I posted and just re-quoted above.. oh wait, you didnt.
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