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Old 03-18-2010, 05:49   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
The thing is, your examples are incomparable.

"If Thor was not the god of thunder, then the norse relgion would not have started".
The thing is, what evidence is there that Thor was the god of thunder? none!

"If Jesus did not resurrect, then the Christian religion would not have started"
The thing is, what evidence is there that Jesus did resurrect?
Everything I have posted.

History and reasoning support it.

Christianity hinges on an historical fact.
Norse religion, if it hinges on Thor being the god of thunder, it hinges on some mythological "fact".

They're not comparable.
There are a TON of evidence to support the theory that thor is the god of thunder, in fact there's probably more to support that than there is proof that jesus was the son of god.
Thor is just one god in the norse religion. I don't believe that religion holds any truth either, the only reason I drew it in in the first place was so you could see how ridiculous the argument "Christianity started up -> jewzez ressurection is a true event" is.

I'll give you another example, which is probably better than the last one:

"Islam started up -> Muhammad was a true prophet of god. (-> islam is the one true religion. (this is what you're basically saying without saying it)"


This argument is just as good, there is just as much or more "evidence to support it" etc. They are comparable~


And by the way, my stance isn't "I don't like your evidence", my stance is "You don't have any evidence at ALL, what you've shown so far is something not unique to christianity, coupled with wishful thinking

There is no evidence to support your religions authenticity, thus it is a false religion.".
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:16   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arronax View Post
There are a TON of evidence to support the theory that thor is the god of thunder, in fact there's probably more to support that than there is proof that jesus was the son of god.
Thor is just one god in the norse religion. I don't believe that religion holds any truth either, the only reason I drew it in in the first place was so you could see how ridiculous the argument "Christianity started up -> jewzez ressurection is a true event" is.

I'll give you another example, which is probably better than the last one:

"Islam started up -> Muhammad was a true prophet of god. (-> islam is the one true religion. (this is what you're basically saying without saying it)"


This argument is just as good, there is just as much or more "evidence to support it" etc. They are comparable~


And by the way, my stance isn't "I don't like your evidence", my stance is "You don't have any evidence at ALL, what you've shown so far is something not unique to christianity, coupled with wishful thinking

There is no evidence to support your religions authenticity, thus it is a false religion.".
The Muhammad example... again, it's not some historical fact.

If you said something like Islam started up -> Muhammad wrote the Koran, then yes. But it's not.

Besides, the evidence is more than "Christianity started, therefore... ". Maybe you're not seeing what I'm posting. I'll post it again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
History (read: history, not the Bible) says that Christianity started up amongst persecution.
History shows there was nothing for the disciples to gain except death and persecution.
Reasoning and logic shows that they weren't lying (else why would they die for a lie they made up with no benefits?)
Reasoning, logic and history shows that they did go to the right tomb (otherwise someone would have shown them the right one and got them to shut up about "Jesus resurrected!".)
Reasoning and logic tells you that they were probably telling the truth.
If that's not evidence, can you please explain why? Not just state it?

I've put forward some evidence, and if you don't think it is, then explain it. It doesn't suffice to say "I don't think what you said is evidence" without any explanation.

After you've done that, please provide some sort of other explanation with evidence supporting it, regarding the 'resurrection'.

If ignoring what I've posted and saying "you don't have evidence" negates my argument, then I can do the same thing and we'll get no where.

So, as I said before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
If you want to have a convincing argument against it, then you'll need to:
1. Show me why the evidence (each bit) I've brought forward is not valid, not just state what you think and make bad comparisons.
2. Provide some sort of alternative explanation with 'proper proof'.
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Old 03-18-2010, 06:33   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
The Muhammad example... again, it's not some historical fact.

If you said something like Islam started up -> Muhammad wrote the Koran, then yes. But it's not.

Besides, the evidence is more than "Christianity started, therefore... ". Maybe you're not seeing what I'm posting. I'll post it again.



If that's not evidence, can you please explain why? Not just state it?

I've put forward some evidence, and if you don't think it is, then explain it. It doesn't suffice to say "I don't think what you said is evidence" without any explanation.

After you've done that, please provide some sort of other explanation with evidence supporting it, regarding the 'resurrection'.

If ignoring what I've posted and saying "you don't have evidence" negates my argument, then I can do the same thing and we'll get no where.

So, as I said before:
Let me finish this conversation.

Religion is based off of faith. The reason you have faith in a religion is because it's not backed by facts, but you are compelled to believe that religion, and God are the reason things happen the way they do. There is very little, if any, proof that the Bible was real...

That leaves 2 scenarios.

1: The Bible is a story book, much like The Lord of the Rings, etc.

2: The Bible is an account of real events.

Whichever you choose to believe, is up to you. Why does it matter?

You can NEVER prove the Bible is real (especially to nay sayers) until the day Jesus descends from the clouds and casts judgement on us sinners, and by then it'd be too late.

And on the other side of the table, you can never prove that the Bible isn't based off of facts to someone who bases their life, and all their decisions on it's teachings. And if one day Jesus comes down from heaven and tells you you're going to hell, who's the idiot then? What if?

Stop fighting about it. You'll never convince each other. Theres no acknowledging that it COULD be real or COULD be fake and believing the opposite. Even saying theres a slight chance is enough to shake your beliefs, and it won't happen.

So stop fighting about it.

And let's all talk about MunK, who has come from the depths of Classic CO to visit and say hi.
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:55   #214
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so i read lord of the ring last year

ITS WRITEN IN A BOOK IT IS REAL STFU ITS EVIDENCE THAT THERES MAGIC RINGS AND MONSTERS ALL OVER THE WORLD
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Old 03-18-2010, 13:43   #215
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I am real.


Though you guys are looking at it the wrong way. Hinduism is the true religion.
Reference to the fact that Ananta is one of the names of Vishnu...


And MunK has a point, as I said, you should believe just in case. You dont lose anything by having faith, all you can do is win if God happens to be real.
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Old 03-18-2010, 13:49   #216
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Then, nail to the coffin.
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Old 03-18-2010, 14:49   #217
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get one for islam

but why be ignorant when you know better? thats worst then losing on purpose
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Old 03-18-2010, 15:15   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerri~v.2.1 View Post
I am real.


Though you guys are looking at it the wrong way. Hinduism is the true religion.
Reference to the fact that Ananta is one of the names of Vishnu...


And MunK has a point, as I said, you should believe just in case. You dont lose anything by having faith, all you can do is win if God happens to be real.
That must be the most selfish, ****tiest reason to believe in god, evar.

EVAR.
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Old 03-18-2010, 15:50   #219
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Originally Posted by Arronax View Post
That must be the most selfish, ****tiest reason to believe in god, evar.

EVAR.
Also it wouldn't work against an all-knowing higher being, He would see right through that. So there goes that back-up plan for all you real non-believers.
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Old 03-18-2010, 19:25   #220
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allah
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Old 03-19-2010, 00:19   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerri~v.2.1 View Post
I am real.


Though you guys are looking at it the wrong way. Hinduism is the true religion.
Reference to the fact that Ananta is one of the names of Vishnu...


And MunK has a point, as I said, you should believe just in case. You dont lose anything by having faith, all you can do is win if God happens to be real.
Kinda.

It is true that we say "just believe in Jesus and you'll be saved" or "saved by faith alone".

But what does it mean to "believe in Jesus" and to have "faith"?

It's not just saying them as your last words before you die

So yes, as arro and Ryu said, it kinda backfires.
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Old 03-19-2010, 01:23   #222
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So do you think God and Satin co-existed one responsible for all good and one responsible for all evil?

My position which I believe is Biblical is this God created everything so he is responsible for everything aka: a sovereign omnipresent and omnipotent God
Atm? yea, they are co existing. Tempting and battling for each and every soul. The story of Job is a nice example. God and satan are actually having a conversation on how Job is righteous and can or cannot be convinced to curse god for every bad thing that satan does to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arronax View Post
zz where to start. Been away from teh internetz for 2 days (moved).



Give me proof that a invisible giant, green piggy (by the name of bubba) is NOT in fact orbiting around the world, with plans to take over the planet with his living, purple feces, which he will inject into our atmosphere via his enormous black penis.

[get the point or die trying.. ^^]


edit to make it idiotproof:
Oh, you can't? Damned shame. Oh well, guess we'll just have to believe that he does in fact exist then, since you can't disprove it. =)



edit#2:

I'm sorry, what?? The ark was found? this is news to me. And since when was there provided proof that the parting of the red sea ever took place? I call bullshiet.



NN, I'm effin tired. (and pissed, the harddrive on my stationary went to **** somewhere along the swchifty fiev-mile drive. -_-).
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Use any of the above, then come tell me if im stilll saying bull****. After just a brief browse this is what i found:

noah - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y5ORpMTebI

moses - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0...age&q=&f=false
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Old 03-19-2010, 03:37   #223
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Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
Kinda.

It is true that we say "just believe in Jesus and you'll be saved" or "saved by faith alone".

But what does it mean to "believe in Jesus" and to have "faith"?

It's not just saying them as your last words before you die

So yes, as arro and Ryu said, it kinda backfires.
The Bible teaches you how to live in a 'good' way. It teaches you which rules to follow, how to act, etc. etc.

Having faith in religion is saying that you believe that these ways are the right ways. On judgement day during the end of days, Jesus will bring you through everything you've done. He will show you when you broke his commandments, and by your past he will decide whether you spend eternity in heaven, or burning in hell.

Faith isn't just believing, it's doing. If you are sitting here telling me you believe the Bible is telling you the truth, and that you should base your life around the Lord's teachings, you damn well better be following his word to the T. You can't say you believe in Jesus, and in the Bible, and go out and get wasted that night and have sex with your girlfriend. Alot of 'wordly ways' that are viewed as normal to our society go against what the Bible teaches. Going to church every week doesn't cut it anymore.

And on the other hand, doesn't that sound awfully like a scare tactic? Much like your parents tell you to go to sleep or Santa won't come, or to eat your veggies or you won't grow, etc. etc.

You can't prove either way, however, and while it's interesting to go over the possibilities, it's not worth debating. Especially over the internet
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Old 03-19-2010, 04:33   #224
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how come that in modern society nobody wants for marriage to have sex(bible cant controle that for sure now) the church just turns a blind eye to it lol

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Old 03-19-2010, 05:31   #225
CheekyPunk27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MunKop View Post
Faith isn't just believing, it's doing. If you are sitting here telling me you believe the Bible is telling you the truth, and that you should base your life around the Lord's teachings, you damn well better be following his word to the T. You can't say you believe in Jesus, and in the Bible, and go out and get wasted that night and have sex with your girlfriend. Alot of 'wordly ways' that are viewed as normal to our society go against what the Bible teaches. Going to church every week doesn't cut it anymore.
MunK is spot on. Nearly.

You're right, if you have faith, then you're going to obey what the bible says.

Christians are saved through faith only. How do you know if they genuinely have faith? They obey what the Bible says.

Obedience to God's commands is the sign of someone having faith.

That said, it's not the obedience to the commands that save you... it's not salvation by works. It's the faith in Jesus death and resurrection that saves, and we know someone has that faith when they try as best they can to obey God's commands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunKop View Post
Having faith in religion is saying that you believe that these ways are the right ways. On judgement day during the end of days, Jesus will bring you through everything you've done. He will show you when you broke his commandments, and by your past he will decide whether you spend eternity in heaven, or burning in hell.
So from here, you're a bit wrong.

Christians are saved by faith, because we trust God and the power of the death and resurrection of Jesus to have paid the price for our sin. This saves us, regardless of whether we sin or not.

But again, as we've just discovered, having faith means that you will not sin. Salvation by Jesus is not a "sin all I want" free card. Having faith = saved no matter what, and the faith is shown by obedience.
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Last edited by CheekyPunk27; 03-19-2010 at 05:34.
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