View Poll Results: Increase the Mana cost for Tornado to 300MP and Fire to 150MP
Yes, Increase the Mana Cost 59 62.77%
No, Do not change it 35 37.23%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-01-2011, 16:35   #106
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Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
1. Don't know what that's about.

2. What movement delay? When a taoist clicks and hits a character they teleport. A non retarded taoist does not use big jumps, and even so, as soon as they click and hit another character they teleport again. So the delay helps them, as they are never in the same corodinate and there is no smooth transition from one point to the next so it is difficult to even land an fb.

3. All classes hit hard, taoists hit ridiculous amounts when they don't have to do even remotely as much work. Yes yes, a 385 trojan kills a 385 taoist unless it is stg. But as your move progressively down the bp chain, from 385->320->300->270->250 etc etc you can see that taoists become 10x more over powered in the lower level bps. Which is where MOST of the players are, which is what TQ should focus on. What, MOST of the players bp are. Not just solely on 385 characters fighting.

4. ....yes melee damage does way more. You have to aim it..lol. Hercules doesn't require much skill, but if a trojan is one shotting you with hercules they are either way higher bp then you or you have **** leveled gears. In either case, that's usually how it works. You have to aim the 2 hits, and hitting 2 hits consecutively on a taoist is hard as ****. Especially with the large ass screens and retarded amount of pots people can carry and now a days taoists have equal amount of hp (at higher bp they have less hp, but in normal average player hp terms taoists tend to have more hp which is retarded)

5. I agree, that talismans and mostly dragon souls really sent this game into the ****. Refineries make characters over powered, especially when it comes to terms with taoists. And then dragon souls...again taoists reap the benefits from dragon souls more so then any other class. The damage they get from a BS and the simplicity of the character just don't balance out. The 2x critical they receive does not make sense, and then they have magic penetration which reduces people's m defense =.=

6. Yes every class was screwed when it came to their pure skill. But pure fire taoists were actually really good when it came to pvp before they nerfed monks. Dodge actually helped them avoid the melee hits, and hence they owned monks. Not to mention, heavens blade is so easy to use. A simple click, and it actually does do a lot of damage. A character that hits me on average, 2.5k would hit me like 9k-11k with heavens blade. That's a ridiculous spike for a simple right click.

1. You will have to click the -> and read your posts in sections to see what I said as thats what the numbers represent(aka the red text you added to my post). You said "Don't think anyone said that, but that isn't even close to relevant for this thread anyway." So I linked a comment that actually said that.

2. If you perform an action while moving or jumping your movement is delayed, the same happens when you take rapid damage. As for the teleport I believe it does that with all classes not just fires, if it bothers you big tq till they fix it.

3. Most low level players do not have high magic defense, they mostly focus on high melee defense which is why.

4. And magic/ranged damage does less because it does not have to be aimed. Sure its not perfect but this is TQ they perfer money over balance.

5. A taoists lvl 130 p6 backsword only gives +1600 magic Matk, an archers lvl 130 p6 bow gives 1800-1800 atk, and a warriors lvl 130 p6 wand gives 3000-3000 atk. I do not know the specifics of any others but the taoist's boost is clearly lower than the others I listed.

6. It might be a simple right click but that "click" consumes 5000 mana and 100 stamina if you dont have both it will not cast the stamina cost is way too much and shouldn't be there especially since it can miss. I even told TQ when they were asking for suggestions that the Pure Fire skill needed to be an xp skill. If it would have been done like that (with 100% accuracy and 20k-30k damage) it would actually be worth something
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So basically, what you are saying is, that if someone at the low ranks of corporation really wants something, he can force the big bosses make them?


Oh lol, you really need a wake up call to the real world.
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Old 12-01-2011, 16:36   #107
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holy jesus huge walls of text o.o
Sorry about that but some people get pissed when I make multiply posts so I merged them all into one. There was alot to reply to.
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So basically, what you are saying is, that if someone at the low ranks of corporation really wants something, he can force the big bosses make them?


Oh lol, you really need a wake up call to the real world.
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Old 12-01-2011, 18:03   #108
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Sorry about that but some people get pissed when I make multiply posts so I merged them all into one. There was alot to reply to.
you sir must have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do irl...
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You dumb ****.
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Old 12-01-2011, 21:38   #109
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Originally Posted by nintendo_guy View Post
1. You will have to click the -> and read your posts in sections to see what I said as thats what the numbers represent(aka the red text you added to my post). You said "Don't think anyone said that, but that isn't even close to relevant for this thread anyway." So I linked a comment that actually said that.

2. If you perform an action while moving or jumping your movement is delayed, the same happens when you take rapid damage. As for the teleport I believe it does that with all classes not just fires, if it bothers you big tq till they fix it.

3. Most low level players do not have high magic defense, they mostly focus on high melee defense which is why.

4. And magic/ranged damage does less because it does not have to be aimed. Sure its not perfect but this is TQ they perfer money over balance.

5. A taoists lvl 130 p6 backsword only gives +1600 magic Matk, an archers lvl 130 p6 bow gives 1800-1800 atk, and a warriors lvl 130 p6 wand gives 3000-3000 atk. I do not know the specifics of any others but the taoist's boost is clearly lower than the others I listed.

6. It might be a simple right click but that "click" consumes 5000 mana and 100 stamina if you dont have both it will not cast the stamina cost is way too much and shouldn't be there especially since it can miss. I even told TQ when they were asking for suggestions that the Pure Fire skill needed to be an xp skill. If it would have been done like that (with 100% accuracy and 20k-30k damage) it would actually be worth something
1. Aaaa I see.

2. The movement is far from delayed relative to receiving rapid damage. In fact, the cast delay is less then the actual stun the opponent receives (if this delay exists). Nah, it was suggested a long time ago but taoists still disagreed with removing the teleportation that taoists have. lol, their logic (you can teleport fb...which is just a retarded rebuttle)

3. ...How do you focus on high melee defense. It's based on the gears TQ provides us with, and up until like gear level like 130 does m defense really come into play.

4. So your logic to keep it like this is because it is TQs way of making money? lol.

5. Relative to how hard it is to actually aim a wand relative to a bs? Like 100x harder lol. Not to mention melee characters are restricted heavily by BP while taoists are less so. 1600 magic is a lot.... O.O especially for a simple right click. As for archers...their damage is cut into nothing due to 129 + boots that reduce their damage by 90%.

6. What does the cost have to do with the simplisticism of using it? I mean sure, I would agree that if the actual skill needed some form of aiming rather then a right click from 2 screens away I'd agree that there should be more damage. But no..lol. It isn't. Maybe if it were similar to fog, but less area and needed to be aimed it would make sense but it doesn't. 20k-30k damage? Really? lol. Imagine...taoist versus any melee class. Heavenly blade, nado, nado , nado (while doing sit spam), gains enough back and heavenly blade again. Do you really think that it requires any skill to do that? lol. Maybe if fire taoists were nerfed they could ask for a proper pure skill...but right now :P it's really not fair. ^^
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:18   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
All classes hit hard, taoists hit ridiculous amounts when they don't have to do even remotely as much work. Yes yes, a 385 trojan kills a 385 taoist unless it is stg. But as your move progressively down the bp chain, from 385->320->300->270->250 etc etc you can see that taoists become 10x more over powered in the lower level bps. Which is where MOST of the players are, which is what TQ should focus on. What, MOST of the players bp are. Not just solely on 385 characters fighting.
Wont coment other walls of text but i want to disagree with what i marked in red. Atack wise most overpowered to its BP tao is when it has full 2 sockets, maxed out penetration with low +. Most of their high physical defense comes from high phase DS, and new high lvl gears. And what matters even more is damage % reduction that comes from blessing and tortoise gems. Usualy the higher BP tao is the more of such things he has. Stop saying random things just because you hate taos. It makes you look like a retard.

Strongly agree with part in blue. But who cares about non bulkers. Even so many people only care only about top players...
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:38   #111
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I voted yes, but... Conditionally. I play a Water Tao and yes Taoists are hugely overpowered in PvP (though on the overworld it's a lot different than in the arena, arena is what I'm talking about; official PvP, which is where points are given and stats count and that's what PvP should be balanced for) but one thing needs to be fixed before we can talk about increasing mana costs.

Spirit. Taoists shouldn't be able to dump it on rebirth for other, more valuable stats. Backswords need Spirit prerequisites to wield. Increasing mana costs is only a solution if OOM (out of mana) should become a decent limiting factor in PvP, so the mana backswords need to go too... BUT... Taos should have a decent mana pool. If it comes down to zap versus zap, Tao versus melee, the Tao should not go OOM first. Forcing Taos not to dump Spirit on rebirth is a must for this idea - so is making high Spirit necessary for good magic offense. Take most of the magic offense off the armour and make Spirit count. Increase the cost of Thunder too, so if you want to be a melee zapper you would really have to invest some Spirit into it. Even though it's my class that's overpowered, I have to say I'm not big on the fact that melee can get everything I have (magic offensively) and be decently viable with it without having to invest much. Conversely if they want to commit to the investment, I feel they should be more viable with it.
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Old 12-02-2011, 01:50   #112
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Good idea thoug any idea to weaker the taoist a little is good!! they are far to overpowered!!
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:06   #113
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Originally Posted by nintendo_guy View Post
1. You will have to click the -> and read your posts in sections to see what I said as thats what the numbers represent(aka the red text you added to my post). You said "Don't think anyone said that, but that isn't even close to relevant for this thread anyway." So I linked a comment that actually said that.

It was me who commented, not stillheart. And the fact here remains that even tho it was posted, it's not relevant.

2. If you perform an action while moving or jumping your movement is delayed, the same happens when you take rapid damage. As for the teleport I believe it does that with all classes not just fires, if it bothers you big tq till they fix it.

It occasional happens for melee classes but it constantly happens for fires. Asking TQ to fix it won't happen so it will remain a huge advantage for fires.

3. Most low level players do not have high magic defense, they mostly focus on high melee defense which is why.

We're not talking about lower lvl players, we're talking about ppl who don't have bulked up potency (330-340+ etc...). I'll give you an example: At this moment I'm a nin with 318 potency. I have 42% blessing and massive m-def with my +7 tower, +8 hood, +12 vest and 1 super M-def refinery. Tho I still get criticals around 9k from a fire with 2 potency less... In other words a fire with 2 potency less can 2-hit me while I have awsome defense... It ain't a problem for lower lvl players only, fires just are massively OP in general.

4. And magic/ranged damage does less because it does not have to be aimed. Sure its not perfect but this is TQ they perfer money over balance.

We all know it's not perfect, hence why a load of ppl want it nerfed. But still it seems that you don't want it nerfed even tho you know something ain't right there...

5. A taoists lvl 130 p6 backsword only gives +1600 magic Matk, an archers lvl 130 p6 bow gives 1800-1800 atk, and a warriors lvl 130 p6 wand gives 3000-3000 atk. I do not know the specifics of any others but the taoist's boost is clearly lower than the others I listed.

1600 magic attack extra has a WAY BIGGER influence on damage then 1.6k physical attack. And you're also forgetting the 10% penetration it gives. In the end a P6 bs does way more then a P6 wand.

6. It might be a simple right click but that "click" consumes 5000 mana and 100 stamina if you dont have both it will not cast the stamina cost is way too much and shouldn't be there especially since it can miss. I even told TQ when they were asking for suggestions that the Pure Fire skill needed to be an xp skill. If it would have been done like that (with 100% accuracy and 20k-30k damage) it would actually be worth something

Suggesting to give pure fires a skill that can 1-hit ppl with equal potency is madness. They should've just made the skill less powerfull and make it cost less mana. But in the end this is a perfect example of how fires should have their attribute points set. Currently nobody does it cuz it is not necessary.
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Wont coment other walls of text but i want to disagree with what i marked in red. Atack wise most overpowered to its BP tao is when it has full 2 sockets, maxed out penetration with low +. Most of their high physical defense comes from high phase DS, and new high lvl gears. And what matters even more is damage % reduction that comes from blessing and tortoise gems. Usualy the higher BP tao is the more of such things he has. Stop saying random things just because you hate taos. It makes you look like a retard.

Strongly agree with part in blue. But who cares about non bulkers. Even so many people only care only about top players...
Dude you're far behind if you still think they need 2 sockets to deal good damage... All they need is some pene, a good fan and a good bs with ds... that's all... And that especially becomes obvious in the lower classes. So I wonder who the retard is.
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you take the prize of most retarded person on forums since unstop got banned.
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LOL. Are you completely stupid???
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Since you can't hear me talking over internet can you?
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Old 12-02-2011, 05:21   #114
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If tq increases mana cost for nado or fire i ll quit my fire and make psn star+psn zapper . Muahaha you can blame only tq for that.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:39   #115
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Originally Posted by StillHeart View Post
1. Aaaa I see.

2. The movement is far from delayed relative to receiving rapid damage. In fact, the cast delay is less then the actual stun the opponent receives (if this delay exists). Nah, it was suggested a long time ago but taoists still disagreed with removing the teleportation that taoists have. lol, their logic (you can teleport fb...which is just a retarded rebuttle)

3. ...How do you focus on high melee defense. It's based on the gears TQ provides us with, and up until like gear level like 130 does m defense really come into play.

4. So your logic to keep it like this is because it is TQs way of making money? lol.

5. Relative to how hard it is to actually aim a wand relative to a bs? Like 100x harder lol. Not to mention melee characters are restricted heavily by BP while taoists are less so. 1600 magic is a lot.... O.O especially for a simple right click. As for archers...their damage is cut into nothing due to 129 + boots that reduce their damage by 90%.

6. What does the cost have to do with the simplisticism of using it? I mean sure, I would agree that if the actual skill needed some form of aiming rather then a right click from 2 screens away I'd agree that there should be more damage. But no..lol. It isn't. Maybe if it were similar to fog, but less area and needed to be aimed it would make sense but it doesn't. 20k-30k damage? Really? lol. Imagine...taoist versus any melee class. Heavenly blade, nado, nado , nado (while doing sit spam), gains enough back and heavenly blade again. Do you really think that it requires any skill to do that? lol. Maybe if fire taoists were nerfed they could ask for a proper pure skill...but right now :P it's really not fair. ^^

3. Characters have a choice between using their class headgear or earings. If they choose earings they have higher magic defense (except taoist which is practically the same) but I believe that most choose the class headgear for higher P-defense while training.

4. My logic is that ranged and magic should deal less than melee since it hits for a longer distance and is easy to use. I also mentioned that TQ prefers money over balance meaning that they likely won't fix it for a while.

5. Perhaps but its still lower than melee souls.

6. The cost has everything to do with using it. It takes 5k mana and 100 stamina. since it takes stamina meditate cannot be used afterwards to recover some of the massive amount of mana it consumes. Since the skill can miss that makes it's costs even more ridiculous (If i'm spending all my mana and stamina to use a spell it needs to hit 100% of the time or have a chance for instant kill otherwise its not worth it). As I said before the best bet is to remake it as an xp skill at 20k-30k damage.

As for nerfs its not taos themselves you need to nerf but, Dragon souls and talismans thats where all the imbalance began. Before that all anyone would need is really good earings and some decent blessed equipment to greatly reduce fire's damage. Nowdays theres talismans, dragonsouls, and artifacts that throw things off.
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So basically, what you are saying is, that if someone at the low ranks of corporation really wants something, he can force the big bosses make them?


Oh lol, you really need a wake up call to the real world.
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Old 12-02-2011, 15:11   #116
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Originally Posted by nintendo_guy View Post
3. Characters have a choice between using their class headgear or earings. If they choose earings they have higher magic defense (except taoist which is practically the same) but I believe that most choose the class headgear for higher P-defense while training.

4. My logic is that ranged and magic should deal less than melee since it hits for a longer distance and is easy to use. I also mentioned that TQ prefers money over balance meaning that they likely won't fix it for a while.

5. Perhaps but its still lower than melee souls.

6. The cost has everything to do with using it. It takes 5k mana and 100 stamina. since it takes stamina meditate cannot be used afterwards to recover some of the massive amount of mana it consumes. Since the skill can miss that makes it's costs even more ridiculous (If i'm spending all my mana and stamina to use a spell it needs to hit 100% of the time or have a chance for instant kill otherwise its not worth it). As I said before the best bet is to remake it as an xp skill at 20k-30k damage.

As for nerfs its not taos themselves you need to nerf but, Dragon souls and talismans thats where all the imbalance began. Before that all anyone would need is really good earings and some decent blessed equipment to greatly reduce fire's damage. Nowdays theres talismans, dragonsouls, and artifacts that throw things off.
3) Only coro's and helms have a disadvantage there, hoods even have more m-def%.

4) unfortunately it might indeed take a while or they might not even fix this.

5) The stats are lower but the influence is bigger. 1.6k m-attack+ 10% pene > 3k p-attack

6) Tao's that have to use meditate while fighting don't play their class right. If you want it to have 100% accuracy, the damage should be lower. Instant kill for a ranged attack like that is just madness... Even if it's an xp skill. That would enable fires to win 95% out of the battles vs ppl with less potency. They can pot off the damage while the others can't. Even now melee chars already depent solely on bt to win against fires with more potency. Don't wanna see that get even worse....

Nerfing fires means adjusting their attack, adjusting their attack is messing with their ds's, refineries or w/e. That's only logical and thus it's the same.

Your explanation about getting ears, some decent blessing, ds's,... is all a load of crap and i'll explain you why:
1) Lvling items works in the advantage of fires, the gap get's bigger and bigger.

2) Ds's work massively in the advantage of fires, there's simply no way to counter it with defense ds's.

3) Refineries obviously also give a HUGE advantage for fires. Their pene can't just be countered cuz melee chars also need crits or bt to fight higher potency ppl while fires don't. So fires can concentrate on pene while melee chars can't solely focus on M-def refineries.

4) It's the same thing for subclasses, pene can't be countered... And giving fires 2x criticals is totally unlogical since they constantly hit their opponents and thus have a lot more criticals.

5) Tallies obviously also give a bigger advantage for fires since you can get more m-attack then m-def there.

6) Ears help but hoods and prolly also the monk headgear give even more m-def. At least the m-def %. So it ain't all about the ears.

7) I've posted my calculations in another thread before and I came to a conclusion: all the m-attack and pene gained by ds's refineries and subclasses can't even be countered for 50%.... Not even half... And then we ain't even talking bout lvling gears and tallies... So good luck with your blessing cuz it ain't nearly enough.

8) Posted in my previous post but i'll repeat my personal example again: A fire on my server who has 2 potency less (he hass 316, I got 318) can deal me criticals over 9k... He can 2-hit me with a char that can attack from a distance with 100% accuracy... Melee chars would get their damage reduced with 50-70% while it doesn't make a difference for fires...

Dude I got a +8 hood, +7 tower with super gems, +12 vest and 42% blessing while he doesn't even have an item above +7... I even got a P5 headgear, P3 armour and 1 super m-def refinery...

The only thing that get's thrown off by artifacts,... is the balance in the advantage of fires. If you say ears and ds's will greatly help you, you obviously haven't thought things through...
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you take the prize of most retarded person on forums since unstop got banned.
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LOL. Are you completely stupid???
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Old 12-02-2011, 15:30   #117
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4. And magic/ranged damage does less because it does not have to be aimed. Sure its not perfect but this is TQ they perfer money over balance.

5. A taoists lvl 130 p6 backsword only gives +1600 magic Matk, an archers lvl 130 p6 bow gives 1800-1800 atk, and a warriors lvl 130 p6 wand gives 3000-3000 atk. I do not know the specifics of any others but the taoist's boost is clearly lower than the others I listed.

6. It might be a simple right click but that "click" consumes 5000 mana and 100 stamina if you dont have both it will not cast the stamina cost is way too much and shouldn't be there especially since it can miss. I even told TQ when they were asking for suggestions that the Pure Fire skill needed to be an xp skill. If it would have been done like that (with 100% accuracy and 20k-30k damage) it would actually be worth something
4. so you admit its not perfect... which is basically what we are all telling you.
5. wtf? 1600 magic attack makes a lot more difference than 1800 for an archer or 3000 for a wand dude.
6. so you want fires to be able to hit 20k to 30k damage on people? thats just pathetic. yeah.... so your opinion is obviously extreemly bias. gtfo.yogosun countered any other points you thought u had.
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Tq will have a major update to solve the bot soon. Auto leveling is different from bot. It's a new way to play CO while you are afk.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:57   #118
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I agree - but increase of mana would be nice or a bit higher regeneration rate.
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Old 12-05-2011, 21:20   #119
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another lively bump

and ill remark on the topic.

http://www.xfire.com/video/511a3e/

observe, she does 1.8k a hit, I have 2127 magic defense and 100% mdef.
having 21525 base attack (66k actual) i have 382 bp she has 379 bp

with stig i did a 14k 2fold. she has 22k hp. with xp shield i do 10ks...
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Last edited by corey0092; 12-05-2011 at 21:47.
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Old 12-05-2011, 21:50   #120
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Originally Posted by corey0092 View Post
another lively bump

and ill remark on the topic.

http://www.xfire.com/video/511a3e/

observe, she does 1.8k a hit, I have 2127 magic defense and 100% mdef.
having 21525 base attack (66k actual) i have 382 bp she has 379 bp

with stig i did a 14k 2fold. she has 22k hp. with xp shield i do 10ks...
mdef is caped at 90%, if not having 100% would = zero damage taken from any magic attack. and xp shield with bless does wonders when you were the "Top" warrior you should have known that quite well.
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You dumb ****.
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