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Old 10-03-2012, 16:54   #46
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**** all human based religions, it's a scam. Just believe in energy (good/bad) and something higher than jesus
Or just believe in life
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Old 10-04-2012, 00:08   #47
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Yes you can, I have witnessed tree's falling and they have made noise. That is intouch with reality.

One thing I have never witnessed however, is someone coming back from the dead 3 days later after being crucified. Etc.

They are different arguements bro. I understand what you're saying, but I feel you don't truly believe that it didn't make a sound. I have this strange feeling that you ARE in touch with reality. (for the most part). Thats why I don't feel the need to carry this discussion about a tree falling further.
Of course we anticipate that the tree will make a sound. But for all we know the trees are trolling us and aren't making a sound if we can't hear it. I saw trees falling many time because I live close to a forest, and a few times I didn't hear them falling at all. So who knows?

Science can't prove it. You always have to assume a factor is unknown if it can not be proven.

Maybe jesus wasn't dead, so he didn't have to revive. There have been people that survived bigger feats.

What I am saying is, we assume a lot. To understand and to learn everything, humanity tries to prove it. That's how it is, will be, and always have been.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:12   #48
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Just read the last two pages and lol'd at the debate failure. Will post reply shortly.

Buddha -

The philosophical argument which you have espoused is (as I'm sure you know) known as Pascal's wager after the french philosopher Blaise Pascal who first put forward the idea in the 17th century. The problem underpinning this argument is that it firstly and necessarily assumes the non-existence of God is indeterminate. As an atheist, therefore, the argument is tripped before it even begins.

From a cynical perspective, let me also note the following two points:

1. The idea of heaven or any religious equivalent is suggested to be an eternal plane of existence, compared with the ephemerality of a life lived on earth. If the deists are correct and heaven exists, then Pascal's wager is correct, but if the atheists are correct and a heaven does not exist then more importantly you will have wasted your only existence believing in something false and, while not necessarily harmful, may indeed have shaped your life very differently.

2. Christians have a lot to lose in Pascal's wager. If I were to do a deathbed conversion to take advantage of a life after this life - surely better to be a Muslim and have the seventy-two virgins or choose Buddhism and be reincarnated. :P
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:46   #49
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Panda - The "tree falling in a woods" thought experiment is not an oxymoron. It's a paradox. An oxymoron is a figure of speech such as "living dead" when the words used are linguistically contradictory; "falling" or "fell" is not the antonym of "sound".

It is an a priori truth that a falling tree will have an effect on reality and clearly if an observer were present, we would say without any doubt that the tree made a sound. The crux of the problem is what we then mean by a sound.

Do we mean:

a) vibrations transmitted through a form of matter; or
b) vibrations transmitted through a form of matter which can be heard.

The tree falling will always cause (a) to be true and assuming that an observer can exist (which is assumed from the phrasing of the question), then (b) will also be true. The philosopher Roy Bhaskar puts this more eloquently: "If men ceased to exist sound would continue to travel and heavy bodies to fall to the earth in exactly the same way, though ex hypothesi there would be no-one to know it."
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:20   #50
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My bad. I was under the assumption paradox and oxymoron were synonyms.

But yea you are correct, I meant B.

You've been doing this for a while haven't you.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:50   #51
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My bad. I was under the assumption paradox and oxymoron were synonyms.

But yea you are correct, I meant B.

You've been doing this for a while haven't you.
Slow day in the office.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:38   #52
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So.. is this about world war III or religion now?
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Old 10-05-2012, 20:06   #53
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Originally Posted by Promethean View Post
Panda - The "tree falling in a woods" thought experiment is not an oxymoron. It's a paradox. An oxymoron is a figure of speech such as "living dead" when the words used are linguistically contradictory; "falling" or "fell" is not the antonym of "sound".

It is an a priori truth that a falling tree will have an effect on reality and clearly if an observer were present, we would say without any doubt that the tree made a sound. The crux of the problem is what we then mean by a sound.

Do we mean:

a) vibrations transmitted through a form of matter; or
b) vibrations transmitted through a form of matter which can be heard.

The tree falling will always cause (a) to be true and assuming that an observer can exist (which is assumed from the phrasing of the question), then (b) will also be true. The philosopher Roy Bhaskar puts this more eloquently: "If men ceased to exist sound would continue to travel and heavy bodies to fall to the earth in exactly the same way, though ex hypothesi there would be no-one to know it."
Thats basically what I said holmes
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:45   #54
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surely better to be a Muslim and have the seventy-two virgins or choose Buddhism and be reincarnated. :P
If this was your deciding factor then you better have a second thought. We don't get any. :'(
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:12   #55
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WWIII - 72 Virgins, ....so that how it gets started.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

Its crap like this that makes people leave their religions. Common sense prevails.

Flesh is an earthly trait. Isn't it "all souls go to heaven" whilst the body rots and the earth claims it? How does flesh go to heaven? I don't recall we are to remain flesh in the afterlife. There is no flesh in afterlife.

I didn't bother looking into what the Koran said, but biblically:

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Oh my, biblically, there are billions of people not going to heaven.

I wonder what the odds are to get into heaven? 1 to infinity?
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Old 10-06-2012, 15:26   #56
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Uh This does not look good guys. We have seriously ****ed up people itching for a World war.

This is not conspiracy. I watched this and had to post this here. Knowing how we are a global audience.

Time to really think about where we are going soon.

SCG

Attachment 147735
Ehm..So there's this Indian guy that works at the pizzeria I work at. He's a nice old man. I'm the manager at the store.

But usually whenever we're working together, we have some issues. The same ones we had a week ago, two weeks ago, a month ago. Same ****, different day.

And what's the issue? The store that I work at has some standards I have to meet. One of those expectations is that whenever a customer orders for delivery, his order needs to be assigned to a driver within 15 minutes of the time the order is placed. It's the most annoying thing that I have to do all day. You have to know which driver is coming back from a delivery first. Which deliveries are going to the same area so they can be assigned to the same driver, etc.

I don't even take the time to read the address in full because I have other things that require more attention. So, I simply assign them randomly and let drivers take which orders they need to. Works nicely, except with him. Any order that is dispatched on his name, he has to take it. He takes it seriously, as if the word of God. And what happens if someone else takes it? Retard mode unlocked. He knows fully well that I can chamge the orders that are assigned to others to whoever took it. It's not even a problem. He has seen me do it before. Yet he just doesn't believe it. Because he has this idea ingrained in his mind that people are trying to take his money. No matter how clearly you explain things to him, it's another trick I'm using to take his money. He won't take the time to learn what the situation is, he doesn't even understand it yet. And that's after working for different pizzerias for over 14 years. Yet he's sure I'm somehow gaining something from this.

Reminds me of you brow.
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Old 10-06-2012, 16:26   #57
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Originally Posted by Electra_Glide View Post
WWIII - 72 Virgins, ....so that how it gets started.

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins

Its crap like this that makes people leave their religions. Common sense prevails.

Flesh is an earthly trait. Isn't it "all souls go to heaven" whilst the body rots and the earth claims it? How does flesh go to heaven? I don't recall we are to remain flesh in the afterlife. There is no flesh in afterlife.

I didn't bother looking into what the Koran said, but biblically:

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Oh my, biblically, there are billions of people not going to heaven.

I wonder what the odds are to get into heaven? 1 to infinity?
That was educational, ty
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