[Ryuzaki]

Originally Posted by Neko.chan

I gotta say this...

Why do people think God allows/created those things? There is another side to that ya know, the fallen one.

I mean, look at this: AIDS is around. The devil pleasures in our suffering, so he throws around some diseases like AIDS. God allows man free thought, so they run off humping everything, and get AIDS. Did God infect them? No, man infected man (was a *** disease anyway).

I don't see why everyone blames God for the bad things on earth, saying He simply allows them to happen. How many times have people beaten cancer? Plenty! Yes, lots of people die from it too. All I'm saying, is don't knock the guy upstairs without realizing the guy downstairs isn't so nice.

See, this is where you are wrong. The Anti-Christ actually created AIDS, and the Anti-Christ are black people.

[BuddhaIncarnate]

Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher

all the hate is gone this got a bit boring since the bible side waved the white flag

I don't remember ever hating someone in this thread, but you have exposed fresh possibilities.

[Neko.chan]

Originally Posted by Ryuzaki

See, this is where you are wrong. The Anti-Christ actually created AIDS, and the Anti-Christ are black people.

._.

Originally Posted by BuddhaIncarnate

I don't remember ever hating someone in this thread, but you have exposed fresh possibilities.

o_o

[Lotak]

Originally Posted by Neko.chan

._.
o_o

O_o?!

No disease is a result of a person transgressing the laws of the Bible. A person can be a mass murderer, thief, arsonist, and not obey traffic rules and will live a comfortable life with a wife and kids to the age of 90 where he dies in his sleep.

Conversely, a person can live a totally religious life, devoted to G-d, be a fantastic person, loved by all, get cancer and die at the age of 35.

Diseases and disasters don't pick and choose which person to target.

And no, Hurricane Katrina wasn't the result of homosexuals living in America. Only idiots would make such a stupid remark.

[BuddhaIncarnate]

Originally Posted by Lotak

O_o?!

No disease is a result of a person transgressing the laws of the Bible. A person can be a mass murderer, thief, arsonist, and not obey traffic rules and will live a comfortable life with a wife and kids to the age of 90 where he dies in his sleep.

Conversely, a person can live a totally religious life, devoted to G-d, be a fantastic person, loved by all, get cancer and die at the age of 35.

Diseases and disasters don't pick and choose which person to target.

And no, Hurricane Katrina wasn't the result of homosexuals living in America. Only idiots would make such a stupid remark.

Yeah, the butterfly effect states that Hurricane Katrina was OBVIOUSLY the result of Homosexuals living in China.

[Deveno]

Originally Posted by BuddhaIncarnate

Have YOU read the Bible?

Christians are not perfect. Christians are just sinners who have accepted that they are imperfect and need God's forgiveness.

Also, I have addressed the issue of old testament laws many times on this forum. DEUTERONOMY WAS A HISTORY OF THE LAWS OF THE JEWS. That is the laws they lived by during that time period. Yes, they were told to stone a rebellious son.

You are so stuck up on "OMG Christians say they believe this stuff but don't live by the rules!" When the whole fact of being a Christian is ADMITTING you can't live by the rules.

Yes, I have read the Bible. I prefer the King James version, by and large, even though some of the wordings sound archaic, and a little forced. The newer translations just sound a little too "vernacular" (and perhaps that's the point).

I don't believe I ever made the assertion that I believe Christians are (or even should be) perfect. My point is there are many people who profess to be Christians, but don't seem to take their professed faith all that seriously. In light of this (and I am not meaning to say you yourself belong in this group), perhaps they should re-examine what their beliefs actually are. A little introspection can't hurt.

One of the more troubling aspects of Christianity is the concept of Grace. For example, according to Christian doctrine, if Adolph Hitler had made a sincere confession and repentence of his sins before he died, hey-he gets Heaven, too! There seems to be a conflict between the concepts of forgiveness and justice. Both forgiveness and justice seem like worthwhile things to believe in, and try to practice. I just don't see how you can have absolute justice and forgiveness at the same time.

To be a little more pointed about it, if one is using Jesus as a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings, I can't see that as a truly spiritual way of life.

[Arronax]

Originally Posted by Deveno

Yes, I have read the Bible. I prefer the King James version, by and large, even though some of the wordings sound archaic, and a little forced. The newer translations just sound a little too "vernacular" (and perhaps that's the point).

I don't believe I ever made the assertion that I believe Christians are (or even should be) perfect. My point is there are many people who profess to be Christians, but don't seem to take their professed faith all that seriously. In light of this (and I am not meaning to say you yourself belong in this group), perhaps they should re-examine what their beliefs actually are. A little introspection can't hurt.

One of the more troubling aspects of Christianity is the concept of Grace. For example, according to Christian doctrine, if Adolph Hitler had made a sincere confession and repentence of his sins before he died, hey-he gets Heaven, too! There seems to be a conflict between the concepts of forgiveness and justice. Both forgiveness and justice seem like worthwhile things to believe in, and try to practice. I just don't see how you can have absolute justice and forgiveness at the same time.

To be a little more pointed about it, if one is using Jesus as a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings, I can't see that as a truly spiritual way of life.

*shoots random old people, pregnant women, babies and orphans on the street*

"GAWD I LuVZ YEEEWWWWW

CYA IN HEVEN LULZ"


*shoots self in face*







Original - God goes around pwning everyone he doesn't like, and their mother.


Expansionpack - PAOWWW CAREBEAR JEWZUZ enters the stage and suddenly the pwnage stops. Well, he does pwn himself (jesus is god, but god is also his father.. eerrrrr.. anyways, so god got crucified and died. OLOLOL) but that's sort of unrelated. Now, no matter who you are you can get into heaven, as long as you agree to be gods bitch.
A word of advice though; don't bend over in the shower.

[CheekyPunk27]

Originally Posted by Deveno

Yes, I have read the Bible. I prefer the King James version, by and large, even though some of the wordings sound archaic, and a little forced. The newer translations just sound a little too "vernacular" (and perhaps that's the point).

I don't believe I ever made the assertion that I believe Christians are (or even should be) perfect. My point is there are many people who profess to be Christians, but don't seem to take their professed faith all that seriously. In light of this (and I am not meaning to say you yourself belong in this group), perhaps they should re-examine what their beliefs actually are. A little introspection can't hurt.

I agree that some people don't take it seriously, but we probably differ on what 'seriously' means. It seems from your previous post that you mean something like, 'they don't follow those laws in the OT about killing people who work on the sabbath'.

The short answer is that Christians live under the covenant of grace, and not the old covenant of the law. We don't however, disregard the Law (Jewish law stuff), the Law is good. However, Jesus is the fullfilment of the law, he brings completion to it and gives it the full meaning. The covenant of the Law is but a shadow of the covenant of grace - Jesus brings the picture into HD.

That probably doesn't answer anything very well, but it's a bit confusing. I had a church camp a year or two about this topic based on the book of Romans, so if you want to try to understand it a bit more, Romans would be a good place to start.

One of the more troubling aspects of Christianity is the concept of Grace. For example, according to Christian doctrine, if Adolph Hitler had made a sincere confession and repentence of his sins before he died, hey-he gets Heaven, too! There seems to be a conflict between the concepts of forgiveness and justice. Both forgiveness and justice seem like worthwhile things to believe in, and try to practice. I just don't see how you can have absolute justice and forgiveness at the same time.

To be a little more pointed about it, if one is using Jesus as a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings, I can't see that as a truly spiritual way of life.

I think you're spot on. It's a scandal, that someone could commit so much sin and rebellion with God, yet if they sincerely confess, repent, believe and live with Jesus as their Saviour and Lord, they can be forgiven and enter heaven!

It's always ridiculous.

But it depends on which side you're standing on. If you're a Hitler, the concept is still utterly ridiculous, but if you truly believe blah blah.. etc. etc. then you're they happiest person on earth.

The Bible, however, says there is only one side.
There is no side of "well, I've lived a good life, and look at that dude there, what a sinner!" (See Romans beginning, and Jesus story about the Pharisee and sinner praying in the temple)

As far as sin and rebellion against God is concerned, we're all in the same boat . While some sin is kinda worse than others, sin is still sin, and even a little bit makes us unable to be in relationship with God. Just as fletch said ages ago, a little poo or a lot of poo... either way you're not gonna eat that cupcake.

In order to truly understand and appreciate God's grace, you first need to truly understand and appreciate you're own sinfulness as described in the Bible. Remember, this idea of grace comes from the Bible, so you must read it in the context that it gives - ie. that all people are terrible sinners.

Now, how can you have absolute Justice and Absolute grace?

The answer is Jesus.

If a hitler person goes to heaven, it's not as if his sins have gone unpunished. That person receives absolute grace and forgiveness from God, and Jesus receives/d the full punishment for his sin on the Cross.

It's like a kid who gets a speeding fine (but on a much bigger scale). He has no way of paying it, so his parents pay it. He receives grace, and the parents bare the brunt of the punishment. The price is payed, justice is served, yet the kid receives grace.

In the same way, we as humans sin so much against God, and we have no way of repaying it but to face judgement and death ourselves. So God sends His Son Jesus and bears the wrath and punishment himself - justice is served, and grace is freely given.

To be a little more pointed about it, if one is using Jesus as a crutch to excuse their own shortcomings, I can't see that as a truly spiritual way of life.

Technically, Jesus is a crutch, because we're all broken people and need help.

But certainly, excuse is the wrong word to use.

But remember also, Christianity isn't concerned about spirituality, or living a spiritual life. It's concerned about grace. Living a spiritual life has got to do with doing good works - which has nothing to do with grace.

Repentance and excuses are incompatible. Repentance starts first with acknowledging sin. And repentance isn't a one off act or something you say. It's a lifestyle.

[Arronax]

Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27

I agree that some people don't take it seriously, but we probably differ on what 'seriously' means. It seems from your previous post that you mean something like, 'they don't follow those laws in the OT about killing people who work on the sabbath'.

The short answer is that Christians live under the covenant of grace, and not the old covenant of the law. We don't however, disregard the Law (Jewish law stuff), the Law is good. However, Jesus is the fullfilment of the law, he brings completion to it and gives it the full meaning. The covenant of the Law is but a shadow of the covenant of grace - Jesus brings the picture into HD.

That probably doesn't answer anything very well, but it's a bit confusing. I had a church camp a year or two about this topic based on the book of Romans, so if you want to try to understand it a bit more, Romans would be a good place to start.



I think you're spot on. It's a scandal, that someone could commit so much sin and rebellion with God, yet if they sincerely confess, repent, believe and live with Jesus as their Saviour and Lord, they can be forgiven and enter heaven!

It's always ridiculous.

But it depends on which side you're standing on. If you're a Hitler, the concept is still utterly ridiculous, but if you truly believe blah blah.. etc. etc. then you're they happiest person on earth.

The Bible, however, says there is only one side.
There is no side of "well, I've lived a good life, and look at that dude there, what a sinner!" (See Romans beginning, and Jesus story about the Pharisee and sinner praying in the temple)

As far as sin and rebellion against God is concerned, we're all in the same boat . While some sin is kinda worse than others, sin is still sin, and even a little bit makes us unable to be in relationship with God. Just as fletch said ages ago, a little poo or a lot of poo... either way you're not gonna eat that cupcake.

In order to truly understand and appreciate God's grace, you first need to truly understand and appreciate you're own sinfulness as described in the Bible. Remember, this idea of grace comes from the Bible, so you must read it in the context that it gives - ie. that all people are terrible sinners.

Now, how can you have absolute Justice and Absolute grace?

The answer is Jesus.

If a hitler person goes to heaven, it's not as if his sins have gone unpunished. That person receives absolute grace and forgiveness from God, and Jesus receives/d the full punishment for his sin on the Cross.

It's like a kid who gets a speeding fine (but on a much bigger scale). He has no way of paying it, so his parents pay it. He receives grace, and the parents bare the brunt of the punishment. The price is payed, justice is served, yet the kid receives grace.

In the same way, we as humans sin so much against God, and we have no way of repaying it but to face judgement and death ourselves. So God sends His Son Jesus and bears the wrath and punishment himself - justice is served, and grace is freely given.


Technically, Jesus is a crutch, because we're all broken people and need help.

But certainly, excuse is the wrong word to use.

But remember also, Christianity isn't concerned about spirituality, or living a spiritual life. It's concerned about grace. Living a spiritual life has got to do with doing good works - which has nothing to do with grace.

Repentance and excuses are incompatible. Repentance starts first with acknowledging sin. And repentance isn't a one off act or something you say. It's a lifestyle.

Okay, so you can pretty much get away with doing anything...?




Sounds pretty retarded if you ask me ^^;

subject 1:
"oohh.. so you commited genocide eh? Responsible for the death of a couple million people? Had several women raped and killed.. responsible for the torture and suffering of several thousand people.. hmm... This is a tough one. Well, do you believe in god? yeah? Okay, stroll right into heaven and enjoy your stay =)"



Subject 2:
"oh, hi there. So I see you've donated nearly all of the money you've earned in your life to charity, you've worked in a homeless shelter, you've been a good person your entire life and never hurt a fly.. Sounds like a easy case to me! One last question though, do you believe in god? No?!? YOU GO TO HELL, SINNER, YOU GO TO HELL AND BURN, YA HEAR!? SUFFER ETERNALLY!! SERVES YOU RIGHT!!!"






Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, your god can go fuck himself With the sharp end of a stick.

[CheekyPunk27]

Originally Posted by Arronax

Okay, so you can pretty much get away with doing anything...?

Yes and no. It's that simple, and it's not that simple. I'll discuss your examples.

subject 1:
"oohh.. so you commited genocide eh? Responsible for the death of a couple million people? Had several women raped and killed.. responsible for the torture and suffering of several thousand people.. hmm... This is a tough one. Well, do you believe in god? yeah? Okay, stroll right into heaven and enjoy your stay =)"

It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.
"Believing in God" is more than just going "i believe in God". The devil believes in God. And I assure you, he won't be in heaven.
Salvation comes through faith, through repentance. Faith in that you trust God to do what he says he will do - ie. save you.
Repentance as before, is a lifestyle. It's living your life trying to not sin because you are thankful to God for sending Jesus to bear your punishment and allow you to have His grace.

So, it's not just belief. If that person in your first example were to truly repent, take responsibility for his sin and actions, then yes, he would be forgiven.

Subject 2:
"oh, hi there. So I see you've donated nearly all of the money you've earned in your life to charity, you've worked in a homeless shelter, you've been a good person your entire life and never hurt a fly.. Sounds like a easy case to me! One last question though, do you believe in god? No?!? YOU GO TO HELL, SINNER, YOU GO TO HELL AND BURN, YA HEAR!? SUFFER ETERNALLY!! SERVES YOU RIGHT!!!"

It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.

There is no 'good' person in God's eyes. All have rejected him.]

Let me give you a more realistic scenario.

Sinner number 1
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 2
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 3
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

Sinner number 4
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

You see, the way you live your life has no bearing on whether you enter heaven or not, because all people have sinned and this automatically excludes them from heaven. God doesn't need to consider that first - there is no good or bad people, only bad people.

Arro, consider these examples. How would you figure them out under your idea of how God should operate?

Person 1:
Commits genocide, is responsible for the murder and rape of millions. Lives in absolute wealth while his people live in absolute poverty.
In the last 10 years of his life, he donates all his money to charity, and spends his time helping the poor and working to cure diseases - just cause he wants to go to heaven.

Person 2:
Spends his life working and helping the homeless, people in third world countries, the sick and poor. Donates millions to charities etc.
Later on in his life, he becomes corrupt and uses his power to commit murder against millions of people in another country so he can use their natural resources to make more money.

So arro, what happens now? Does the good outweigh the bad, or does the bad outweigh the good?
Does person 1 go to heaven because his last efforts on earth were for 'good', and does person 2 go to hell because his last efforts on earth were for 'evil'?
Or do they both go to hell for committing such terrible sins, regardless of when... but then what about the good that they did?

When you want God to be who you think he should be, you get yourself into a bit of trouble. Then you have to invent new ideas, like.. purgatory

The Biblical answer that God has revealed to us about himself, is Jesus and grace. If they have not accepted Jesus as saviour and Lord (Lord meaning live a life with Jesus as God - a life of repentance and good works from faith (not for salvation)) then they're going to hell because of their rejection of God.
If they have accepted Jesus as Saviour and Lord, then they're going to heaven not because they did good things, but because their rejection against God has been paid for by Jesus on the cross and they receive his grace.

----------------

So arro, where do you stand? Subject 1, or subject 2?
Or somewhere inbetween?

It doesn't matter does it, I think you've made it clear where you stand...

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, your god can go fuck himself With the sharp end of a stick.

The same place as everyone else, fletch, bigfry, myself included: the side who has rejected God - the only side there is.

[Arronax]

Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27

Yes and no. It's that simple, and it's not that simple. I'll discuss your examples.



It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.
"Believing in God" is more than just going "i believe in God". The devil believes in God. And I assure you, he won't be in heaven.
Salvation comes through faith, through repentance. Faith in that you trust God to do what he says he will do - ie. save you.
Repentance as before, is a lifestyle. It's living your life trying to not sin because you are thankful to God for sending Jesus to bear your punishment and allow you to have His grace.

So, it's not just belief. If that person in your first example were to truly repent, take responsibility for his sin and actions, then yes, he would be forgiven.



It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.

There is no 'good' person in God's eyes. All have rejected him.]

Let me give you a more realistic scenario.

Sinner number 1
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 2
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 3
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

Sinner number 4
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

You see, the way you live your life has no bearing on whether you enter heaven or not, because all people have sinned and this automatically excludes them from heaven. God doesn't need to consider that first - there is no good or bad people, only bad people.

Arro, consider these examples. How would you figure them out under your idea of how God should operate?

Person 1:
Commits genocide, is responsible for the murder and rape of millions. Lives in absolute wealth while his people live in absolute poverty.
In the last 10 years of his life, he donates all his money to charity, and spends his time helping the poor and working to cure diseases - just cause he wants to go to heaven.

Person 2:
Spends his life working and helping the homeless, people in third world countries, the sick and poor. Donates millions to charities etc.
Later on in his life, he becomes corrupt and uses his power to commit murder against millions of people in another country so he can use their natural resources to make more money.

So arro, what happens now? Does the good outweigh the bad, or does the bad outweigh the good?
Does person 1 go to heaven because his last efforts on earth were for 'good', and does person 2 go to hell because his last efforts on earth were for 'evil'?
Or do they both go to hell for committing such terrible sins, regardless of when... but then what about the good that they did?

When you want God to be who you think he should be, you get yourself into a bit of trouble. Then you have to invent new ideas, like.. purgatory

The Biblical answer that God has revealed to us about himself, is Jesus and grace. If they have not accepted Jesus as saviour and Lord (Lord meaning live a life with Jesus as God - a life of repentance and good works from faith (not for salvation)) then they're going to hell because of their rejection of God.
If they have accepted Jesus as Saviour and Lord, then they're going to heaven not because they did good things, but because their rejection against God has been paid for by Jesus on the cross and they receive his grace.

----------------

So arro, where do you stand? Subject 1, or subject 2?
Or somewhere inbetween?

It doesn't matter does it, I think you've made it clear where you stand...



The same place as everyone else, fletch, bigfry, myself included: the side who has rejected God - the only side there is.

heh. In my opinion, both of your subjects should be sent to hell if there is such a place.


In my opinion, your actions make up who you are. In my opinion, one shouldn't be affected by the "sin" of ones predecessors. In my opinion, a newborn baby is without sin. In my opinion, the default route for a baby that dies before "accepting god blahblahblah" should NOT bd going hell to suffer for all eternity.. just the thought of it disgusts me.
In my opinion, the idea of inheriting sin is plain out ridiculous.

If someone is to be judged for anything, it's what they themselves have done in this life.


In my opinion, believing in, and respecting a malevolent god such as the one you're talking about is unimaginable.





On a sidenote: I find it funny that people swear on the bible in courtrooms in some countries, amongst them america. I'm pretty sure the bible says something about not judging others? Wouldn't that make the entire legal system heresy?

[CheekyPunk27]

Originally Posted by Arronax

heh. In my opinion, both of your subjects should be sent to hell if there is such a place.

Then where is the line drawn?

Murdering millions will get you to hell, regardless of how much other good you do?
What about murdering thousands and doing good?
Or murdering hundreds and doing good?
Or murdering 10s and doing good?
Or only murdering one and doing good?

Where is this imaginary line?

Or are there some 'sins' that are just plain bad, and you go to hell irregardless of whatever good you've done?
So if someone when they're young and reckless, in their 20s, goes around murdering and raping, but then truly repents and spends the rest of his life trying to make up for it by doing good, he'll still go to hell?

What if they killed thousands, but then truly repent and spend the rest of their life trying to make up for it by doing good?

Again, where do you draw the line? Does their good make up for their bad?

Or are you saying that some sins have infinite weight on the scale of good and bad, so they can never be balanced by good works?

In my opinion, your actions make up who you are. In my opinion, one shouldn't be affected by the "sin" of ones predecessors. In my opinion, a newborn baby is without sin. In my opinion, the default route for a baby that dies before "accepting god blahblahblah" should NOT bd going hell to suffer for all eternity.. just the thought of it disgusts me.
In my opinion, the idea of inheriting sin is plain out ridiculous.

No one ever said dead babies go to hell. That's a strawman.

And you don't inherit sins of your forefathers. What we inherit is a state of being out of relationship with God.

If someone is to be judged for anything, it's what they themselves have done in this life.

So where do you draw the line with someone who has done both terrible things, but also really great wonderful good things?

In my opinion, believing in, and respecting a malevolent god such as the one you're talking about is unimaginable.

Only because you think you're better than people who commit murder and other 'terrible unforgiveable' sins. You're not as bad as them, are you?

On a sidenote: I find it funny that people swear on the bible in courtrooms in some countries, amongst them america. I'm pretty sure the bible says something about not judging others? Wouldn't that make the entire legal system heresy?

Judging as in saying "you're a murderer/rapist, you're going to hell, I'm not like you, I'm better than you".

The legal system and government authorities, God says you should obey because he has allowed them to be in power, for all authority comes from Him.

But yeah, i think it's kinda stupid - it's lost it's meaning.

[CheekyPunk27]

Let me know if this is right.

To you, heaven isn't a place where good people go, it's best described as a place where 'bad' people don't go. So long as you're not bad, like a murderer, then you go to heaven.

If you were God, this is how you would do it?

[Buddah*Palm]

Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27

Let me know if this is right.

To you, heaven isn't a place where good people go, it's best described as a place where 'bad' people don't go. So long as you're not bad, like a murderer, then you go to heaven.

If you were God, this is how you would do it?

If you want a better depiction of hell, read The Divine Comedy (Preferably the section, "Inferno")

I'd elaborate more on what I have to say on religion, but all I'll say is this:

Religion is an age old system that does nothing more than perpetuate self-inflicted punishment for committing "sins" which can be loosely described as arbitrary and downright retarded. Take for instance, the Judeo-Christian religion which equates all sin as punishable by death (a second death mind you).

Basically, telling a white lie would be equal to having murdered an infant by chopping it into pieces and jerking off with its blood (Pardon the semi-graphic description, but that's basically what type of mindset we're dealing with). Now if the guy who did such horrendous acts to a child "truly repented/felt sorry his actions," he would be blameless in the eyes of God and allowed to reside in heaven forever. If the guy who told white lies died without asking for forgiveness - he has a first-class ticket on the HellBound Express (keep in mind, there are NO SECOND CHANCES).

So not only are you threatened with the idea of an eternity in hell, but overall the punishment doesn't suit the crime. So you'll have people rubbing rosaries and recanting "Hail Marys" on the off chance that they may be going to hell for something that they may have said rather than what they have done. You pretty much then have a system where people live life in fear of what's to come, rather than living the lives they could/should be living.

It's ridiculous but that's about it really. Not to mention the fact that there is not true historical record of the man Jesus during the time period in which he supposedly lived in. The miracles that are ascribed to him are also considered a part of mythology adapted from various other "messiahs" (i.e. Horus; an Egyptian god and many others) all of whom were reported to have healed the sick, cured the blind, died in public, and rose from the dead (zombies?)

Now you've just seen an example based on one religion - one of the popular ones btw. There are also many branches/denominations within Christianity because they all believe/interpret the Bible differently. Remember that there are other countless religions including Islam, Judism, Hinduism, Buddhism (which is an ideology - but whatever...) and many other lesser known religions due to them being tribal-based ones.

Now the real question is this. Which one do you choose to ascribe to? Because if you choose the wrong one, you're going to hell. And of course, after choosing what you think is "right" for you remember that they'll all preach how the other religions are WRONG anyways. (That's something to think about)

Like I said, I'd like to elaborate but I'd rather not piss on too many shoes while on the forums...not yet at least.

TL;DR: Former "Jesus Freak" believes that Religion is BULL****.

[BuddhaIncarnate]

You don't belong here either.