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Old 08-12-2009, 10:27   #1
FallenPrime
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Penetration - Activation rate sux

10% activation rate at elementary, and 15% at fixed. After all that work... only 5% bonus is added? Daggers are hard to use, as you have to get right next to your opponent to use them... I have 2 solutions that could work for this.

1:
Extend the range of the Dagger, making it hit as far away as a wand or spear(not penetration, just melee)

2:
Make the activation rate 25% at fixed, it's not a big difference in appearance, but it makes a big one in practical use.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:52   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenPrime View Post
10% activation rate at elementary, and 15% at fixed. After all that work... only 5% bonus is added? Daggers are hard to use, as you have to get right next to your opponent to use them... I have 2 solutions that could work for this.

1:
Extend the range of the Dagger, making it hit as far away as a wand or spear(not penetration, just melee)

2:
Make the activation rate 25% at fixed, it's not a big difference in appearance, but it makes a big one in practical use.
I agree that Penetration needs a little higher activationrate. But Penetration isn't the only skill with a low activationrate.

Celestial (for Scepter) and Seizer (for Hook) also have a low activationrate. Not even talked about the damage o.o.
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Old 08-12-2009, 13:27   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenPrime View Post
10% activation rate at elementary, and 15% at fixed. After all that work... only 5% bonus is added? Daggers are hard to use, as you have to get right next to your opponent to use them... I have 2 solutions that could work for this.

1:
Extend the range of the Dagger, making it hit as far away as a wand or spear(not penetration, just melee)

2:
Make the activation rate 25% at fixed, it's not a big difference in appearance, but it makes a big one in practical use.
it gives a huge bonus in attack, that is why it dous not activate often

if it activated often everyone would use it cause it would be superior

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Old 08-12-2009, 18:47   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvdk View Post
it gives a huge bonus in attack, that is why it dous not activate often

if it activated often everyone would use it cause it would be superior

~ not signed
look at what type of dmg the dagger has in the first place lowest of all weps why use it then? yea 200 pct dmg with low activation rate but then lowest dmg of all? weps?? thats 1 con 2 pros clubs/rage is used frequently by everyone cuz activation rate is fairly well dmg of club is rly good and oh yea! it hits more than 1 monster,, downside is if u wanna hit 1 target may not always happen might hit more than 1 by accident, and the club has rly high max dmg but rly low min dmg 3 pros 2 cons see the diff? swords and blades are used jus cuz ss/fb obviously
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Old 08-12-2009, 19:15   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan.God View Post
look at what type of dmg the dagger has in the first place lowest of all weps why use it then? yea 200 pct dmg with low activation rate but then lowest dmg of all? weps?? thats 1 con 2 pros clubs/rage is used frequently by everyone cuz activation rate is fairly well dmg of club is rly good and oh yea! it hits more than 1 monster,, downside is if u wanna hit 1 target may not always happen might hit more than 1 by accident, and the club has rly high max dmg but rly low min dmg 3 pros 2 cons see the diff? swords and blades are used jus cuz ss/fb obviously
dualwield?

club mainhand, the dagger second hand..
at halved damage, the diference is also halved..
so the damage done is insane
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Old 08-12-2009, 19:17   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan.God View Post
look at what type of dmg the dagger has in the first place lowest of all weps why use it then? yea 200 pct dmg with low activation rate but then lowest dmg of all? weps?? thats 1 con 2 pros clubs/rage is used frequently by everyone cuz activation rate is fairly well dmg of club is rly good and oh yea! it hits more than 1 monster,, downside is if u wanna hit 1 target may not always happen might hit more than 1 by accident, and the club has rly high max dmg but rly low min dmg 3 pros 2 cons see the diff? swords and blades are used jus cuz ss/fb obviously
It is because penetration does something weird with defense. Against monsters you don't notice a difference but use penetration and phoenix against a warrior and you will notice the damage difference.
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Old 08-12-2009, 21:31   #7
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Thx all for your opinions... I don't see this poll going anywhere sadly... too many people are against balance. They already fixed their club prof and are too lazy to level pene =p I fixed it on a 130 non rb tro and gave it away, then worked on it on my 130-130-131 too. Not fixed yet... but working on it. and on my ninja.
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Old 08-12-2009, 21:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kvdk View Post
it gives a huge bonus in attack, that is why it dous not activate often

if it activated often everyone would use it cause it would be superior

~ not signed
Btw, the 10-15% is bull****... I tested it myself and it activates at about 5% at level 4... about 1/20 hits activates it with 1 dagger and no off-hand weapon. With 2 it hits 10% if you're lucky.

Daggers are too pro to be usable? Sad... It's a great weapon... but you need to fix it and PRAY it works.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenPrime View Post
10% activation rate at elementary, and 15% at fixed. After all that work... only 5% bonus is added? Daggers are hard to use, as you have to get right next to your opponent to use them... I have 2 solutions that could work for this.

1:
Extend the range of the Dagger, making it hit as far away as a wand or spear(not penetration, just melee)

2:
Make the activation rate 25% at fixed, it's not a big difference in appearance, but it makes a big one in practical use.
That is actually a 50% increase, not a 5% increase (15/10 = 1.5).
Anyway, if you want to increase the activation rate, then the attack MUST decrease because, put simply, if you take an average of 100 hits with all the weapons, the dagger is actually VERY powerful for 2 reasons.

1) The power of penetration makes up for the weakness in attack even if its an 3:17 ratio of attack compared to (say) rage which is a 9:11 ratio of attack.

2) Daggers have superior agility, probably more than all the other weapons combined. if penetration doesn't activate, there is a VERY good chance that a melee attack will hit. Even with dual swords the successful hit rate is actually very low and swords have 78 agility. Daggers have 212 agility.

Also, I saw last night a 301 pot ninja do 4k attack on a 351 pot -52% damage tro with penetration. That's a VERY high attack when you consider he's doing only 14.4% of the damage he should be ((1-0.7)*(1-0.52) = 0.144).
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:07   #10
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So if daggers are so great and i heared so many pro players talking how pro they are with their fixed penetration... why i dont see people using them?
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:13   #11
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Old 08-13-2009, 05:53   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LitasLTL View Post
So if daggers are so great and i heared so many pro players talking how pro they are with their fixed penetration... why i dont see people using them?
cause you need skill for it..

you cant aimbot it
you can zap***** it

you need to stun/suprise someone, and then jump next to them and hope for a hit..

but the thing is, if you normally dont 1hit someone, you'll prolly 1hit them with penitration
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Old 08-14-2009, 04:34   #13
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lol make attack range of a butter knife same as a spear. what did you smoke the other night?
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Old 08-17-2009, 17:28   #14
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Not signed, sorry, but I use pene on my tro with a sword/dagger combo, gives a chance of pene activation, and if it doesn't, you're almost guaranteed a nix hit or a mellee hit, so you're gonna deal some damage either way, plus you can still use scent sword, which is an advantage over the club/dagger combo, which means you HAVE to get mellee close, and thats not always easy against a good tao or non-airborn archer.

But basically, sword/dagger and you deal major damage, the activation rate is the sacrafice to make for the power of the attack, and the fact that it ignores armour values
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Old 08-17-2009, 17:56   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LitasLTL View Post
So if daggers are so great and i heared so many pro players talking how pro they are with their fixed penetration... why i dont see people using them?
Because your server sucks?
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