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Old 04-13-2013, 10:52   #61
Deathclaw
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Originally Posted by ~*panda*~ View Post
Yea, which gave them the legal right to act as if they did something against it to meet customer complaints.
And again you are dumb. It never mattered for the court WHY they developed warden. It was only relevant that it existed just like the co anti bot software. Its exactly the same case. You obviously still dont understand why blizzard won...

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Originally Posted by ~*panda*~ View Post
Of course they got counterclaimed. Bliz threatened to get this to court, and mdy just went in first saying they were harassed for legit stuff. Of course you won't win that, that's why they got facepunched by bliz. A case as a defendant and a case as an accuser is completely different.
Jagex vs Impulse was an accuser case. How is the outcome even different? Dont even make it sound as if a bot company had any chance nowadays.

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Originally Posted by ~*panda*~ View Post
It differs a lot. Like I said, it is the payment. When playing TQ games, we are not "customers". We are merely people using their software which they shared. While Blizzard games, which are pay to play, are. Like stated in the DB buying ToA, you do not own anything nor have any say whatsoever when buying additional things on our software. While in blizzard if you buy a subscription, you are entitled to it no matter what. Not even Bliz can change that.
What part of "impulse sold a bot for a f2p game" did you not understand? The status of the customer is completly irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by ~*panda*~ View Post
I'll quote the part about the jagex vs impulse part that you apparantly missed out.

"There is only actual value in targeting legally those who are making profits from the sale of the bots. Otherwise invariable you don***8217;t make the money back.In this case it was a commercial product with a registered company."

Co bot creators are not registered companies nor do they sell commercial products.
Lol thats common knowledge. Obviously u dont sue someone if you u dont expect any profit from it.
I hope for you that u didnt understand it as if bot creators couldnt be sued because they are dont have a registered company. Beside that u obviously dont know what a commerical product is. Any sellable product is a commerical product. Their bots cant be sold? No? Then why do they sell them? lol
No matter what, you showed again that u are dumb.

Anyways the scale is way different here. The TQ bot creators most likely cannot afford proper lawyers anyways and now we have 2 precedents. Profit is really not the reason why TQ dont sue them.





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Originally Posted by ~*panda*~ View Post
Yea I know Bot hosts can be easily sued in the US now, for the 5th time, I'm not disagreeing atm. Like I said, with the recent hot topic debate about bots n hackers, they can too easily be made an example for others by some judge. However, if using the reasoning of the other 2 cases you gave me, the ones on conquer here would not be charged for it, because THEY AREN'T REGISTERED COMPANIES.

That's why TQ doesn't sue them. Conquer bot hosts aren't companies, they can't be targeted as such. If someone that hosts conquer bots suddenly says "hey, I'm making a company because I'm making money from my bots in conquer and X other games!", yea, they'll get sued.
LOL. I didnt know that u were that dumb. Of course you can also sue natural persons instead of just legal personalities (wow that law class was actually good for something ). Do you really think that those website/blog/whatever owners that were sued because of the DMCA were always legal personalities? Hahahaha.
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Last edited by Deathclaw; 04-13-2013 at 10:54.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:28   #62
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What an irresistible thread to follow.

I hope this keeps up for a couple more days at least ^.^
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Old 04-13-2013, 13:09   #63
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Originally Posted by Micdeath View Post
Look up digital signatures, look up EULA contracts, look up local laws regarding each.
Thank you, I just blasted Panda out of the water with knowledge. Like omg

Sundancer, a contract is just a formal agreement between parties. No need to have a lawyer (but it sure is a damn good idea to have one go over the terms.)
i agree, presence of a lawyer is not mandatory.

im not sure tos and eula are the same.

also, digital signature can be challenged in court. i remember obama signed a bill or something digitally and they had to repeat it the old fashion way.

the thing with tos, is you dont even need to sign it. you just click a button to be able to use the service. you violate the terms and the service is cut off. no criminal liability whatsover.

now with regards to tq, if they sue, who are they going to sue? and how are they going to prove it? what if tq lose?

the people that hosts the bots are most likely not companies, so the ip address isnt even registered. and you cant assign ip address to an individual, unless there a (new) law that allows it now.

dont get me wrong, im for banning all the bot accounts and the botters stopped for good.

im just discussing the merits of suing the botters.

i mean why not stop the bots in game instead of suing.

remove/reduce mobs. increase rewards on arenas. why cant they do this?


edit: like i said, tos, nobody reads them.

here. https://plus.google.com/+MikeElgan/posts/UjXrKcayV1n.
its nothing new, i already heard about this argument before.

Last edited by sundancerx; 04-13-2013 at 13:16.
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Old 04-13-2013, 13:32   #64
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Originally Posted by sundancerx View Post
the people that hosts the bots are most likely not companies, so the ip address isnt even registered. and you cant assign ip address to an individual, unless there a (new) law that allows it now.
Every website has one static IP address otherwise you couldnt access them. Also someone obviously pays the bill for the domain. This is really not a problem.
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Old 04-13-2013, 17:29   #65
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Originally Posted by sundancerx View Post
now with regards to tq, if they sue, who are they going to sue? and how are they going to prove it? what if tq lose?

TQ can't lose unless as long as they got the rights reserved,its not like the bot creators actually made the game

the people that hosts the bots are most likely not companies, so the ip address isnt even registered. and you cant assign ip address to an individual, unless there a (new) law that allows it now.

Everything is registered,an IP is like a phone number,you can change it but as long as you still used it at least once its still trackable
I won't be saying anything more because as long as the owners of the game don't give a "f",we the users,can't change anything...Sad story but true,they got the legal rights to deal with this problem but whey wont for some reason,but still...Its their game,they take the decisions...I'm out of this topic.
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Old 04-13-2013, 20:50   #66
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Originally Posted by Destructive View Post
A friend of mine had that issue. I guess they are crackin down hard on trade logs.. If you accepted a botter and received "items" that "benefited" you will get you botjailed. Lol you can probably submit a ticket and be released within 2 days or so.
I didn't trade a botter. I just sit and enlighten for few hours, then log in another account, then they said I am using a bot because I do log in many accounts. Yes I do log in 8-16 noobs, but not at the same time..TQ really **** now a days.
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Old 04-13-2013, 21:51   #67
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I dislike replies like that, I'd have to scroll every time I want to say something. Edit your post by splitquoting or something like deathclaw did, I'll reply to you then. I'm not avoiding anything, I just cba replying without a post I can quote.
oh so sorry you have to do a little extra work. Oh you big baby, here is a snicker bar.
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Old 04-13-2013, 22:13   #68
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Originally Posted by sundancerx View Post
im not sure tos and eula are the same.
They differ, only so much like apples. You have sweet and you have sour, they differ, but both are still apples.

Quote:
also, digital signature can be challenged in court. i remember obama signed a bill or something digitally and they had to repeat it the old fashion way.
The reasoning was tradition (plus the pens used are used as peace gifts), and the older generation not comfortable with the digital signage.
As for being challenged, yes, but so are hand signatures.
For example, people have to sign certain papers during medical instances, and sometimes hand motor functions are impaired, so an X is commonly used.
As you can guess, this is often challenged by people who are unhappy.

Quote:
the thing with tos, is you dont even need to sign it. you just click a button to be able to use the service. you violate the terms and the service is cut off. no criminal liability whatsover.
Two parts, first the tick box, THAT is one of the things that are being argued in the legal circles. Currently as-is, it is considered a legal digital signature, and is used by banks and other institutions.
The second part, violating a ToS can put you in criminal liability. It just depends what you did that was illegal that also breached contract agreements. A simple breach of contract isn't illegal (dependent on country/state/local laws of course) just a failure to upkeep a formal promise that can have legal consequences.

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now with regards to tq, if they sue, who are they going to sue? and how are they going to prove it? what if tq lose?
If they feel ballsy, every bot user, but that will require a huge legal team and money to be effective. The smart thing would be the source. Though they may opt to go the "make an example of" route and do a publicity stunt by suing a user for a **** large amount. The money isn't ever expected to be paid, it is just a stunt.

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the people that hosts the bots are most likely not companies, so the ip address isnt even registered. and you cant assign ip address to an individual, unless there a (new) law that allows it now.
Every time you are assigned an IP address, it is logged. The duration of use is also logged. Your ISP account is tied to that IP for that specific duration.
You have terrorist to blame for that. If you are in an allied nation of the USA, you can be sure that they follow what the evil USA does.

Quote:
edit: like i said, tos, nobody reads them.
I do. And you should ALWAYS ALWAYS read and UNDERSTAND everything you agree to.
Even though there has been effort to curtail it, the old "power of attorney" trick is still being used, and in some area's, enforced.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:39   #69
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Originally Posted by Deathclaw View Post
Every website has one static IP address otherwise you couldnt access them. Also someone obviously pays the bill for the domain. This is really not a problem.
Dynamic DNS, anyone?
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:59   #70
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UK qualified lawyer here, AmA.

Not going to read through the whole thread, but will comment on a few things:

Quote:
Two parts, first the tick box, THAT is one of the things that are being argued in the legal circles. Currently as-is, it is considered a legal digital signature, and is used by banks and other institutions.
I broadly agree with your analysis here. Provided that the terms of service are displayed, either on screen or via a click-through link, in my view it would be virtually impossible to to argue that in checking the tick box you are not deemed to be accepting the terms of service. If the terms of service are not obviously displayed, I think there would be a better case to argue that the user did not accept such terms.

Quote:
The second part, violating a ToS can put you in criminal liability. It just depends what you did that was illegal that also breached contract agreements. A simple breach of contract isn't illegal (dependent on country/state/local laws of course) just a failure to upkeep a formal promise that can have legal consequences.
This is not quite correct. When you talk about "illegality" I assume you mean "criminal". If you breach the terms of a contract you are potentially giving rise to a claim for damages (the other party will obviously have discretion as to bring such claim) through the courts, but such claim is a civil and not a criminal matter. Criminal law is derived through statute, in this case, we are talking about fraud, theft, piracy through breach of copyright etc and although the terms of service may reserve rights to intellectual property etc., the contract or terms of service itself does not set out what is or isn't criminal.

Therefore, a breach of contract will always result in a civil claim, but will only result in a criminal proceedings if the nature of the breach is criminal under the laws of the relevant jursidiction in which action is taken against the user.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:13   #71
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Originally Posted by Dr.Vote View Post
Dynamic DNS, anyone?
Yea sure if you want to deal with angry users that cannot access your site. Beside that a dynamic ip doesnt protect you.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:17   #72
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Originally Posted by Deathclaw View Post
Yea sure if you want to deal with angry users that cannot access your site. Beside that a dynamic ip doesnt protect you.
I know, I just wanted everyone to know how WRONG you were in your statement.

Hehehehehehe
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:17   #73
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Originally Posted by Dr.Vote View Post
I know, I just wanted everyone to know how WRONG you were in your statement.

Hehehehehehe
I was talking about professional websites like the ones of bot companies, not some kid that wants to use his old pc and his DSL connection to host a server. If you want to talk about the latter then you are wrong in this thread.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:23   #74
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Originally Posted by Deathclaw View Post
I was talking about professional websites like the ones of bot companies, not some kid that wants to use his old pc and his DSL connection to host a server. If you want to talk about the latter then you are wrong in this thread.
What's this ancient DSL connection thing you are talking about? Sorry, we only have fibre optic broadband here.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:44   #75
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