[Rigby]

let em borrow full +6 2 soc assassin gear and they good 2 go

[~*panda*~]

Originally Posted by Micdeath

@Panda
Your so cute when you are so wrong. Like a child denying that santa is fake.

@Noodlez
It is $10k in a single month before they flag you, and don't know if they flag your account if you reach a certain cumulative over time.
I do know that they will suspend the account if the account is new, receives a huge amount of money in a very very short period of time, and/or the money is being funneled outside the original countries the money was received from. Again, large amounts.

@Panda, again
A ToS IS a contract, it IS legally binding (except those deemed unenforceable by country/state/local laws), have stood the test of time, and is currently the hot debate, legal wise.

You changed your story on specific murder technique that if isn't mentioned, it is allowed, to being generic cover all. That is where you changed.

I do know what slandering is. :3

As to your little "test", first few things need to be clear, I am in no way shape or form a legal representative of NetDragon Websoft/TQ Digital, and thus cannot legally represent them in a court of law. Now onto the bot issue, even if you did acquire/create a bot and used it on this game or use at all, it has to damage, ME-personally me-, in some way that would warrant a lawsuit. Since I have no stake in NetDragon Websoft/TQ Digital, your bot use has no direct damage effect on me personally, the most I could do would be a rider in a class action suit for the indirect damages dealt to me.
We can go ahead and proceed, but that would put me in legal trouble, so in practicality, no this would not be possible.

Sorry panda, though you could file for that slander, my place or your place? No matter, since I am "appear" for summon via video conferencing.
Oh before I forget, in order for me to appear in court over there, I have to fit the bill in both here and there, if only there, well tough **** your laws do not apply to me, if here, tough ****, your laws do not apply to me here, so you much have the suit brought to my place. If I fit both here and there, I appear over there. Even then, you are only limited to what applies to me here. :3

You're*. Sorry, just had to. Love people lecturing me in their language yet don't even know how to use it.

No, I made it more general because I would think some people, like you, wouldn't understand my point. My point was, if murder wasn't in the law, it would be legal. The TV was an added example. I should have used a less specific term to avoid confusing you guys, that's my only mistake.

A ToS is a legally binding for your account, not you as a person. Try to look it up, it actually means something different. In other words, break the ToS and they can retaliate against your account for no reason whatsoever. The whole botting process is not even related. The thing that gets you in legal issues is the fact that you use a reverse engineered tool to infract game rights. That has NOTHING to do with the ToS. That is just breaking the law. Botcreators however, if created themselves, go out free because they didn't infract the game itself. A knive is only illegal if you use it to stab people. That is how law works.

Of course it is currently the hot debate, because botters are more seen as "hackers" (which is laughable), and voices of concern are being raised to stop them. Some politician will add it to his election vows one day and it might actually see some change. The first ones that tried that came with acta, sopa and even worse monstrosities. Maybe one day, we'll see a decent one that we can accept. The future however is irrelevant to the current situation.

And that was my point exactly. Both of our laws don't apply to eachother. I'm glad I got you to see it like this. Took me an overexaturated example, but it worked.

Originally Posted by n00dlez

Guess you've been out of the loop, which means you don't bot or check bot forums or get involved in bots. Congratulations.
First honest player in ages.

Believe it or not they put a lot of effort and work into it. It's not some straight forward application.
Also, yes they file themselves under the software category.

Again, most if not all take PayPal and PayPal has strict restrictions.

The loops a lie. If I want info, I grab it from the source. Which is pretty much my msn contact list if you know what I mean.

[Deathclaw]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

The thing that gets you in legal issues is the fact that you use a reverse engineered tool to infract game rights. That has NOTHING to do with the ToS. That is just breaking the law. Botcreators however, if created themselves, go out free because they didn't infract the game itself. A knive is only illegal if you use it to stab people. That is how law works.

Again, tell that MDY and Impulse. Maybe u should read the DMCA instead of claiming bs.

[~*panda*~]

Why don't you quote the parts with link of course that prove me wrong? You keep refering me to the DMCA yet it has nothing that can argue with the logic I use.

[Deathclaw]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

Why don't you quote the parts with link of course that prove me wrong? You keep refering me to the DMCA yet it has nothing that can argue with the logic I use.

Why dont u read it yourself?

http://www.iplb.org/articles/case-su...ertainment-inc

If your software (bot) interacts with a gameworld that is protected against unauthorized access (their anti bot software) then u are guilty according to the DMCA. Every bot obviously has to interact with the gameworld. As I said you have to be very dumb if you still sell bots as an american nowadays.

[~*panda*~]

>compares a free to play modeled game to a subscriptioned one.

Did you even read the "reasoning" part? They agreed with blizzard only after they established that the customers complaints were valid because they held said subscription.

Blizzard acts in that entire case as a representative of its clientel, that feels harm is done because of that bot.

Did you know you actually have rights as a customer if you pay for it? Did you know that if bliz makes one wrong move, you are allowed to sue them for not following the contract? Do tell me when we can sue TQ for not holding their end of the bargain. OH WAIT, WE SIGNED A "have no say about anything" CLAUSE.

Don't go mixing up stuff. The subscription you buy with blizzard is a contract. That is what you pay for. The reasoning would be completely different in TQ's case.

Not only that, do you know why TQ doesn't sue bot makers? Because they have no legal grounds. Yea that's right, they don't. Script Vessel, Jproxy, .... All of em are, or were, bots that established a strong foothold in the conquer community. Why were they never sued? Go answer that one.

I asked you to quote a part to prove me wrong, not add another unrelated link about a case from Blizzard, one of the worlds most powerful gaming companies.

I'm not even arguing about the selling bots as an American thing. Why do you keep bringing that up?

[n00dlez]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

>compares a free to play modeled game to a subscriptioned one.

Did you even read the "reasoning" part? They agreed with blizzard only after they established that the customers complaints were valid because they held said subscription.

Blizzard acts in that entire case as a representative of its clientel, that feels harm is done because of that bot.

Did you know you actually have rights as a customer if you pay for it? Did you know that if bliz makes one wrong move, you are allowed to sue them for not following the contract? Do tell me when we can sue TQ for not holding their end of the bargain. OH WAIT, WE SIGNED A "have no say about anything" CLAUSE.

Don't go mixing up stuff. The subscription you buy with blizzard is a contract. That is what you pay for. The reasoning would be completely different in TQ's case.

Not only that, do you know why TQ doesn't sue bot makers? Because they have no legal grounds. Yea that's right, they don't. Script Vessel, Jproxy, .... All of em are, or were, bots that established a strong foothold in the conquer community. Why were they never sued? Go answer that one.

I asked you to quote a part to prove me wrong, not add another unrelated link about a case from Blizzard, one of the worlds most powerful gaming companies.

I'm not even arguing about the selling bots as an American thing. Why do you keep bringing that up?

5Bot was sent a take down notice and closed. TQ sent threatning letters including court papers.
COMimic was sent a take down notice and ignored, but closed.
JProxy was closed because of a take down notice. It was publically posted upon it's closure.
Infamous works with the 1/3 latest bots and ran jProx.
Steve is another which ran a previous bot.
Finally some newb sauce runs the last.

You are correct, TQ literally hasn't taken them straight to court, but they closed prior to being completely screwed. They'll continually relaunch and relaunch and relaunch under new names.

Good thing I rarely log into the game anymore.

[Micdeath]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

No, I made it more general because I would think some people, like you, wouldn't understand my point. My point was, if murder wasn't in the law, it would be legal. The TV was an added example. I should have used a less specific term to avoid confusing you guys, that's my only mistake.

No that is called switching stories to save face when busted.

Going from a very very specific detail to a very broad general cover-all is too radical of a shift to be called a generalization.


A ToS is a legally binding for your account, not you as a person. Try to look it up, it actually means something different. In other words, break the ToS and they can retaliate against your account for no reason whatsoever. The whole botting process is not even related. The thing that gets you in legal issues is the fact that you use a reverse engineered tool to infract game rights. That has NOTHING to do with the ToS. That is just breaking the law. Botcreators however, if created themselves, go out free because they didn't infract the game itself. A knive is only illegal if you use it to stab people. That is how law works.
Again, you fail to realize how contracts WORK, and how they FUNCTION legally. This tells me you have no experience in the matter. Either from defending one or enforcing one. Maybe some generic ones you most likely never read before signing. This inexperience tells me you have none in court, a ToS/EULA/AGREEMENTS are contracts. Also, get off the botting high horse, the topic that is being argued has nothing to do with bots. You fail to realize this.

Of course it is currently the hot debate, because botters are more seen as "hackers" (which is laughable), and voices of concern are being raised to stop them. Some politician will add it to his election vows one day and it might actually see some change. The first ones that tried that came with acta, sopa and even worse monstrosities. Maybe one day, we'll see a decent one that we can accept. The future however is irrelevant to the current situation.

Again, get off the botting high horse, and the botting issue is not the hot debate in the legal circles, hell, botting doesn't even register.
The hot debate in the legal circles is about how the shrink wrap contracts are enforced, browsing contracts, blind/minifont contracts, ghost contracts and the like. Those are what is the hot debates. Botting? Doesn't registure.

You want the reason why botting isn't being targeted? Because "botting" is too broad, too generic, it is a cover-all for ALL automated processes. You have to define what is illegal and what is legal, to do that on a cover-all term is just beyond idiotic, and that is why "botting" doesn't register in the legal circles.

That is why bot creatures are targeted for different reasons outside the bot program itself. how you cannot see this is beyond me, then again you are dumb, so you do have an excuse in that regard.

Also, ACTA and SOPA, have you even ****ing READ them? have you? If you did, you wouldn't sound like a total idiot. Seriously, read them, what they are isn't what you think. Are they bad? Yes, they were total ****. But not for what you think.


And that was my point exactly. Both of our laws don't apply to eachother. I'm glad I got you to see it like this. Took me an overexaturated example, but it worked.

Another face save attempt, seriously, admit you just don't know **** in this area.

In red, mine.

[curses3]

TQ randomly pick account to sent in jail. Like my other char., I was just sitting having blessed for 3 hrs. and when log in in the next day... Boom! I was on a jail. When I complained, they just said.I was using a bot.blah blah blah **** I don't use any cheats.

[Destructive]

Originally Posted by curses3

TQ randomly pick account to sent in jail. Like my other char., I was just sitting having blessed for 3 hrs. and when log in in the next day... Boom! I was on a jail. When I complained, they just said.I was using a bot.blah blah blah **** I don't use any cheats.

A friend of mine had that issue. I guess they are crackin down hard on trade logs.. If you accepted a botter and received "items" that "benefited" you will get you botjailed. Lol you can probably submit a ticket and be released within 2 days or so.

[Deathclaw]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

>compares a free to play modeled game to a subscriptioned one.

Did you even read the "reasoning" part? They agreed with blizzard only after they established that the customers complaints were valid because they held said subscription.

Blizzard acts in that entire case as a representative of its clientel, that feels harm is done because of that bot.

Did you know you actually have rights as a customer if you pay for it? Did you know that if bliz makes one wrong move, you are allowed to sue them for not following the contract? Do tell me when we can sue TQ for not holding their end of the bargain. OH WAIT, WE SIGNED A "have no say about anything" CLAUSE.

Don't go mixing up stuff. The subscription you buy with blizzard is a contract. That is what you pay for. The reasoning would be completely different in TQ's case.

Not only that, do you know why TQ doesn't sue bot makers? Because they have no legal grounds. Yea that's right, they don't. Script Vessel, Jproxy, .... All of em are, or were, bots that established a strong foothold in the conquer community. Why were they never sued? Go answer that one.

I asked you to quote a part to prove me wrong, not add another unrelated link about a case from Blizzard, one of the worlds most powerful gaming companies.

I'm not even arguing about the selling bots as an American thing. Why do you keep bringing that up?

Lolol. Are you dumb or something?

The only thing that Blizzard did because of the complaints was to develop Warden.

In response to complaints about players using bots such as Glider, Blizzard developed Warden, a technology that prevents players from using unauthorized third-party software, including bots such as Glider, from connecting to WoW's servers.

Maybe you should learn to read but it clearly says that MDY went to the court first due to the C&D letters that Blizzard started with sending them and banning bot users (sounds familar? )

MDY brought suit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Arizona, seeking a declaratory judgment to establish that Glider sales did not infringe Blizzard's copyright.

and then got ****ed by the counterclaim of Blizzard.


And thats the part of the law that broke MDY's neck:

The court concluded that MDY's Glider did not violate DMCA section 1201(a)(2) with respects to the literal and individual non-literal elements because these elements were available on a player's hard drive once the game client software was installed, and were therefore accessible without circumventing Warden.

However, the court held that Glider did violate section 1201(a)(2) with respect to WoW's dynamic non-literal elements because these elements were accessible only on Blizzard's servers, access to which was effectively controlled by Warden.

Now how is the f2p/p2p part here even relevent? Do f2p games not have dynamic non literal elements? Lolol.
Yes you are dumb.

As i said Impulse is another case:

A bot for a f2p game.

http://philip.whiuk.com/?p=379

This happened after MDY and this time they were even more successfull than Blizzard and again it was because of 1201(a)(2) of DMCA.

If you understood how the US justice system worked then you would understand that every bot company of the US can be easily ****ed now.

Who knows why TQ dont sue them. Either they dont care or their law department isnt up to date, because afaik that Impulse/Infamous/Hybrid guy is from the US, dunno about the other fools.

[Infamous~29]

Originally Posted by n00dlez

5Bot was sent a take down notice and closed. TQ sent threatning letters including court papers.
COMimic was sent a take down notice and ignored, but closed.
JProxy was closed because of a take down notice. It was publically posted upon it's closure.
Infamous works with the 1/3 latest bots and ran jProx.
Steve is another which ran a previous bot.
Finally some newb sauce runs the last.

You are correct, TQ literally hasn't taken them straight to court, but they closed prior to being completely screwed. They'll continually relaunch and relaunch and relaunch under new names.

Good thing I rarely log into the game anymore.

I realize Wikipedia isn't the best source to cite, but you can check else where, tl;dr

In the U.S. the term is used in two different contexts. A cease-and-desist order can be issued by a judge or government authority, and has a well-defined legal meaning. In contrast, a cease-and-desist letter can be sent by anyone, although typically they are drafted by a lawyer

The money time, etc. consumed in order to fight a legal battle (even if it's one you would win; but as a result of winning, it's not like you're recovering your losses) to an individual is substantial to an individual where as miniscule to a cooperation (i.e. ND).

[IluminatI]

Originally Posted by ~*panda*~

lamisto

OoOoOOoOOoHHHHhhhh you said the name!
banhammer

[Moonfall]

Champions server is so full with bots atm I cant even kill 50 hawkings to complete a quest.

[~*panda*~]

Originally Posted by n00dlez

5Bot was sent a take down notice and closed. TQ sent threatning letters including court papers.
COMimic was sent a take down notice and ignored, but closed.
JProxy was closed because of a take down notice. It was publically posted upon it's closure.
Infamous works with the 1/3 latest bots and ran jProx.
Steve is another which ran a previous bot.
Finally some newb sauce runs the last.

You are correct, TQ literally hasn't taken them straight to court, but they closed prior to being completely screwed. They'll continually relaunch and relaunch and relaunch under new names.

Good thing I rarely log into the game anymore.

There you said it. A take down notice. And what's more? They just changed names. A take down notice is not a legal action nor a threatening letter. Court papers were never sent. A take down notice is just a warning to say "hey, you are infracting my stuff!". It doesn't mean jack ****. Whether the owner wants to take it into account or not is his own choice. Bot creators just changed the layout and name of the bot and carry on.

I'm fully aware of who works with what. Hell, I bet even hemp knows by now.

Originally Posted by Micdeath

In red, mine.

I dislike replies like that, I'd have to scroll every time I want to say something. Edit your post by splitquoting or something like deathclaw did, I'll reply to you then. I'm not avoiding anything, I just cba replying without a post I can quote.

Originally Posted by Deathclaw

Lolol. Are you dumb or something?

The only thing that Blizzard did because of the complaints was to develop Warden.

Maybe you should learn to read but it clearly says that MDY went to the court first due to the C&D letters that Blizzard started with sending them and banning bot users (sounds familar? )

and then got ****ed by the counterclaim of Blizzard.

And thats the part of the law that broke MDY's neck:

Now how is the f2p/p2p part here even relevent? Do f2p games not have dynamic non literal elements? Lolol.
Yes you are dumb.

As i said Impulse is another case:

A bot for a f2p game.

http://philip.whiuk.com/?p=379

This happened after MDY and this time they were even more successfull than Blizzard and again it was because of 1201(a)(2) of DMCA.

If you understood how the US justice system worked then you would understand that every bot company of the US can be easily ****ed now.

Who knows why TQ dont sue them. Either they dont care or their law department isnt up to date, because afaik that Impulse/Infamous/Hybrid guy is from the US, dunno about the other fools.

Nope, not dumb.

Yea, which gave them the legal right to act as if they did something against it to meet customer complaints.

Of course they got counterclaimed. Bliz threatened to get this to court, and mdy just went in first saying they were harassed for legit stuff. Of course you won't win that, that's why they got facepunched by bliz. A case as a defendant and a case as an accuser is completely different.

It differs a lot. Like I said, it is the payment. When playing TQ games, we are not "customers". We are merely people using their software which they shared. While Blizzard games, which are pay to play, are. Like stated in the DB buying ToA, you do not own anything nor have any say whatsoever when buying additional things on our software. While in blizzard if you buy a subscription, you are entitled to it no matter what. Not even Bliz can change that.

I'll quote the part about the jagex vs impulse part that you apparantly missed out.

"There is only actual value in targeting legally those who are making profits from the sale of the bots. Otherwise invariable you don’t make the money back.In this case it was a commercial product with a registered company."

Co bot creators are not registered companies nor do they sell commercial products.

Yea I know Bot hosts can be easily sued in the US now, for the 5th time, I'm not disagreeing atm. Like I said, with the recent hot topic debate about bots n hackers, they can too easily be made an example for others by some judge. However, if using the reasoning of the other 2 cases you gave me, the ones on conquer here would not be charged for it, because THEY AREN'T REGISTERED COMPANIES.

That's why TQ doesn't sue them. Conquer bot hosts aren't companies, they can't be targeted as such. If someone that hosts conquer bots suddenly says "hey, I'm making a company because I'm making money from my bots in conquer and X other games!", yea, they'll get sued.