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Old 03-14-2013, 14:34   #31
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Originally Posted by sundancerx View Post
whats the point of sword dagger?
Same questsion. lol
Phoenix will decrease chance of penetration. It's unuseful combo.
Blade dagger will be much better.
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Old 03-14-2013, 22:39   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTheGod1 View Post
I never used 2 swords, because I played with tro before dragon souls, subclasses and other crap. Sword have very low attack, so I never used it.
I also don't like combos with 2 swords or 2 blades, because there are skills only from 1 kind of weapon. I prefer to have as many skills as I can(usefull skills), so sword and blade is my favourite(ss/fb, phoenix and poison(if blade is poison).
sword and blade, now at 140, are virtually the same. so to me, blade's usefullness starts to fade. plus, fastblade animation now suck balls.

used to have blade-blade back then. purple 130 blades were so cool.

however, im never a fan of poison blade. i dont categorize it in the useful skill.

if you havent tried tried herc-then-mellee, its pretty fun. or bait with SS to land a mellee, and nix activates, pretyy gratifying, lol.

herc works best against many opponents, or some pesky taos who have lower ping than yours, they are hard to hit.
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:10   #33
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wrong

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustTheGod1 View Post
Same questsion. lol
Phoenix will decrease chance of penetration. It's unuseful combo.
Blade dagger will be much better.
sword - dagger is good

if u put dagger in the right hand the activation of penetration is 35% and phoenix very lower that 85 (sword in left hand).
if u change hands (sword in right) you have 85% of phoenix.
if u are meleeing a boss or pole or gates put sword in right hand
if u wanna melee a STG char go for dagger in right hand and sword in left
try it in TG !
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:17   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER1_74 View Post
sword - dagger is good

if u put dagger in the right hand the activation of penetration is 35% and phoenix very lower that 85 (sword in left hand).
if u change hands (sword in right) you have 85% of phoenix.
if u are meleeing a boss or pole or gates put sword in right hand
if u wanna melee a STG char go for dagger in right hand and sword in left
try it in TG !
Still don't like this combo. Phoenix anyway will have higher percent. People use dagger only for penetration skill. Blade haven't passive skills, so blade-dagger is still much better.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:15   #35
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no bro

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Originally Posted by JustTheGod1 View Post
Still don't like this combo. Phoenix anyway will have higher percent. People use dagger only for penetration skill. Blade haven't passive skills, so blade-dagger is still much better.
if u use dagger in right hand e sword in left hand (and suppose to have penetration and phoenix fixed) the result in tg is :

in the 35% of melee attack penetration will activate (excatly like blade dagger)
in the rest 65% of hit you have 85% of chance that phoenix will activate.

go in tg with dagger (right hand) and sword (in left) for excatly 1 minutes and start count only the number of penetration effect (dont care to phoenix animation )
then use dagger shield (or only dagger) and count again for 1 minutes
same result!
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:42   #36
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Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
the point is that you look cool.
agree! And penetration was cool skill.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:11   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER1_74 View Post
if u use dagger in right hand e sword in left hand (and suppose to have penetration and phoenix fixed) the result in tg is :

in the 35% of melee attack penetration will activate (excatly like blade dagger)
in the rest 65% of hit you have 85% of chance that phoenix will activate.

go in tg with dagger (right hand) and sword (in left) for excatly 1 minutes and start count only the number of penetration effect (dont care to phoenix animation )
then use dagger shield (or only dagger) and count again for 1 minutes
same result!
140 dagger attack: 2220-2357 ave=2288.5
140 sword attack : 2700-3252 ave=2976


1. dagger-sword : 3776.5
2. sword-dagger : 4120.25
3. sword-sword : 4464

full sdgs/stig/fixed prof:
1. 16436.8
2. 17933
3. 19429.1

mellee :
1. 16436.8 [(.35)(3)+(.65)(.85)(1.5)+(.65)(.15)(bonus effect)] = 32964
2. 17933[ (.85)(1.5)+(.15)(.35)(3)+(.15)(.65)(bonus effect)] = 27962
3. 19429.1[(.85)(1.5)+(.15)(bonus effect)] = 28560.8

scentsword:
1. 23011.5
2. 25106.2
3. 27200.4

above is rough estimate/differences in damages of various combos (anyone can reevaluate my math, i put bonus sdg effect at 30pct) and some observations below:

1. dagger-sword has the highest attack on bosses on average and a decent 35pct chance on activating pene when landing a mellee.

however, when pene does not activate, a reduced attack vs. a sword-sword combo could spell the difference winning and losing.

same scenario with scentsword.

2. sword-dagger is pretty much useless combo as chances of activating pene is very low. also, lowest attack on bosses on average.

a blade-dagger is better as you keep 35pct chance of activating pene and higher attack of blade compensates a little bit for the reduced damage in dagger.

3. sword-sword is the best combo imo. highest attack on SS plus decent damage on bosses and 85pct chance of activating nix when landing a mellee.

and as bonus, you keep herc.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:00   #38
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i agree your math but

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundancerx View Post
140 dagger attack: 2220-2357 ave=2288.5
140 sword attack : 2700-3252 ave=2976


1. dagger-sword : 3776.5
2. sword-dagger : 4120.25
3. sword-sword : 4464

full sdgs/stig/fixed prof:
1. 16436.8
2. 17933
3. 19429.1

mellee :
1. 16436.8 [(.35)(3)+(.65)(.85)(1.5)+(.65)(.15)(bonus effect)] = 32964
2. 17933[ (.85)(1.5)+(.15)(.35)(3)+(.15)(.65)(bonus effect)] = 27962
3. 19429.1[(.85)(1.5)+(.15)(bonus effect)] = 28560.8

scentsword:
1. 23011.5
2. 25106.2
3. 27200.4

above is rough estimate/differences in damages of various combos (anyone can reevaluate my math, i put bonus sdg effect at 30pct) and some observations below:

1. dagger-sword has the highest attack on bosses on average and a decent 35pct chance on activating pene when landing a mellee.

however, when pene does not activate, a reduced attack vs. a sword-sword combo could spell the difference winning and losing.

same scenario with scentsword.

2. sword-dagger is pretty much useless combo as chances of activating pene is very low. also, lowest attack on bosses on average.

a blade-dagger is better as you keep 35pct chance of activating pene and higher attack of blade compensates a little bit for the reduced damage in dagger.

3. sword-sword is the best combo imo. highest attack on SS plus decent damage on bosses and 85pct chance of activating nix when landing a mellee.

and as bonus, you keep herc.
the math sometimes is useless ,in PVP the most important thing is kill your enemy in 1 hit. if u 1 hit your oppent the match is finish!
with pentration you can with other skill not !!
in term of melee , sword-sword and blade- club is the same:
still 2 hit !!
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:28   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER1_74 View Post
the math sometimes is useless ,in PVP the most important thing is kill your enemy in 1 hit. if u 1 hit your oppent the match is finish!
with pentration you can with other skill not !!
in term of melee , sword-sword and blade- club is the same:
still 2 hit !!
landing a mellee is not as easy as you think it is. and what it is more difficult is when you land, pene has ~1/3 chance of activating.

personally, ill have a better chance killing by hercing and mellee or 2 or ss then herc immediately.

thing is, if you hit once you got a much higher chance of landing another as your opponent would pot and/or regain stam if you hit him sitting.

now with a dagger-sword combo, with reduced damage, 2 hits might not be enough. so now, you are now looking for 3 or more hits, as your opponent would pot in between damages.

9k+ diferrence in damage with 2 consecutive hits is a lot.

also, your opponent wouldnt be able to do small jumps as you can easily switch to herc and mellee. long jumps is easier to hit with ss, at least in my experience.

actually, you can switch between ss and herc to confuse your enemy.

i love my herc :P
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:26   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER1_74 View Post
the math sometimes is useless ,in PVP the most important thing is kill your enemy in 1 hit. if u 1 hit your oppent the match is finish!
with pentration you can with other skill not !!
in term of melee , sword-sword and blade- club is the same:
still 2 hit !!
SS still kills most people in one hit. It certainly makes sense to have a dagger though, as pene is really good if you find an importunity to easily melee someone, or for people who can survive an ss/fb.
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Old 03-15-2013, 20:49   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghfdhhdf View Post
SS still kills most people in one hit. It certainly makes sense to have a dagger though, as pene is really good if you find an importunity to easily melee someone, or for people who can survive an ss/fb.
if you have a dagger in your right, you wont be i hitting people a lot. just look at it's attack range, compared to a sword or blade.

also, as pointed out, pene activation rate is crap. if it doesn activate, then you have crappy damage. chances are, if your opponent mellees back, you might be the one to die first.

there's a reason dagger is a niche weapon, most of them you find being used on bosses esp since it has high dex.

i dont ever see a +12 140 dagger in my server. then again, i only log few mins,3 -4 tiems, a week so...
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Old 03-15-2013, 22:04   #42
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there's a reason dagger is a niche weapon
Yes, of course, but it does have its uses.
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Old 03-16-2013, 15:17   #43
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Old 03-16-2013, 16:03   #44
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What happened to Blade/club club/blade doing the most fb damage

now im getting the same or more damage with blade/sword both at the same lvl and prof at the same level

dafaq did Tq nerf that too?
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Old 03-16-2013, 20:15   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USER1_74 View Post
sword - dagger is good

if u put dagger in the right hand the activation of penetration is 35% and phoenix very lower that 85 (sword in left hand).
if u change hands (sword in right) you have 85% of phoenix.
if u are meleeing a boss or pole or gates put sword in right hand
if u wanna melee a STG char go for dagger in right hand and sword in left
try it in TG !
I just want to clarify something. What do you mean by right hand? Is it the character's right hand? Or ur viewpoint of the right which would be the character's left hand?
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