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Religion should not be respected 16 51.61%
Religion should be respected 5 16.13%
I don't care as long as they don't try to recruit me 10 32.26%
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Old 08-14-2010, 18:47   #76
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Old 08-14-2010, 19:05   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotak View Post
You are missing the point.
What Jaxx is saying is that he thinks everyone that is religious or leads a religious life is automatically brainwashed. This implies that these people cannot think for themselves. What annoys me is that he honestly believes this is how religious people live life. Whilst this is true in some cases, it is totally false in the majority of cases, and this gives religious people a bad rep and dribble like that causes MORE people to believe it.
Not true bro. Brain washed as child. They cant think for themselves as such. But why would a child object to religion anyways, it doesnt know better.

You were and are brainwashed.

You believing in God is as normal to you as believing its wrong to eat dogs or cats. ( couldnt think of an example ). As a child you were told that thats how it is. You are told there is a mythical man in the sky.

Don't you see what am getting at? What choice did you have as child a.k.a sponge. Children are born to soak up what their told. Hell if my parents raised me to believe their were elfs in the basement why would I disagree?


Now I dont think you cant think for your self. Once brainwashed your no different from the rest of us. You can feel, you can love, you can make moral decisions. However you will always have your faith as a burden on you. I pity religious people who live their lifes and are limited in certain ways because it might may "god" mad. You agree?

e.g Muslim women not allowed to get dirvorced because allah said this was bad...Wow thanks religion for getting another women stoned.

Terrbile examples am making here and am rushing this, its 3 am atm and my throats sore.

Like richard dawkins said, " if you were born in Athens hundrend of years ago, you would be worshipping Zeus, or born in Egypt you would be prasing Allah ".

Think for 1 min, "what is my parents didnt tell me about Jesus and the bible as a child?"...Then you would most likely be a an atheist.

Men have been making up mythical storys for years bro, you, imo, are just another poor brainwashed sheep.
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Old 08-14-2010, 19:31   #78
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I usually jump into all these dumb religion debate thingies and all that, but HOLY **** you guys type way too much and it's too friggin hot to put my laptop on my lap to sit here long enough to read it all.

Ya'll should sum in up in about a sentence for me.
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Old 08-14-2010, 19:36   #79
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Originally Posted by Alastriona View Post

Ya'll should sum in up in about a sentence for me.
place there with their in the topic title, and that's the point of this thread

i almost got pulled into it, but arguing with a religious person is WORSE than talking to a brick wall, and I like LoTaK
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Old 08-14-2010, 19:54   #80
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here's the thing about this discussion that bothers me.

this is often presented as a dichotomy: on the one hand, you have the Scientists, who, in their ultra-rationalism, dismiss anything spiritual as mythical-and you have the Faithful, who hold it as a mark of superiority that they are guided by an ultimate Authority.

i see it more fluidly, i see the suppositions about the nature of the world we live in as axiomatic-that what choices we make about how things are (and we DO choose. even if we are given prejudices by those who raised us, eventually we realize we are free to agree or not), determine the world-view that we have.

some logicians believe you need infinity to describe truth. some reject this view. and yet, the ability to use logic and reason has not halted dead in its tracks, awaiting the answer.

at the extremes, both views are disheartening. the fervent zealot, willing to commit any transgression in the name of their beliefs, surely does not represent the best of what humanity can be. but neither does the perfectly amoral rationalist, who when asked: why are we? who are we? doesn't know, and worse, doesn't care.

most people fall somewhere in-between. i have known few people, who, if they were backed up against the wall hard, would never even consider prayer. who is it we talk to, when we are utterly alone? the thought that all this, is just only us, and that our very existence is a biochemical accident is one very few actually comtemplete, and even fewer live by.

by the same token, most people, even if deeply religious, realize that faith is riddled with contradiction. even Jesus, the figure held up as a model human, cired out as he was dying: "O Lord, why have you forsaken me?" our lot is no different.

faith without reason can be a sign of a weak mind. and yes, many people are weak enough to need comfort wherever they can find it. but reason without faith, is to strip the world of her mystery and beauty, and who of us truly desires that?

human beings are capable of great and noble things. to be outraged by injustice, to create visions of a better world, to make the unknown beauty exist, when it did not before. who is there alive that has not wept at a song that has moved them, or felt awe at the beauty of a single image? we can often act with tremendous love and honor, even when there is no clear reason for doing so. and these parts of ourselves, which we recognize to be us at our best, from whence they come?

i would argue that some religious feeling is to be discounted as mere tradition, but also forgiven because of that. we cannot discount the fact that all of us, in some sense, are children of our cultures. more than one point of view is possible, sure, but at least ONE point of view is necessary. who is to teach us, if not our parents (or their surrogates)?

my point is, when looking at how humans are, our history, and the views we have had during it, cannot be merely regarded as "outgrown". we may be new, but there is little proof in the current state of world affairs, to suggest we are "improved".

one could, for example, consider the ten commandments. put aside for a moment, whether these are actually the divine revelation of God's word.

Thou shalt not kill. Why do these words even EXIST? Why shouldn't we kill? This is something well worth thinking about, and whoever wrote it down, no matter what their motivations, has done us the kind of profound favor that just cannot be repaid.
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Old 08-14-2010, 20:09   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveno View Post
here's the thing about this discussion that bothers me.

this is often presented as a dichotomy: on the one hand, you have the Scientists, who, in their ultra-rationalism, dismiss anything spiritual as mythical-and you have the Faithful, who hold it as a mark of superiority that they are guided by an ultimate Authority.

i see it more fluidly, i see the suppositions about the nature of the world we live in as axiomatic-that what choices we make about how things are (and we DO choose. even if we are given prejudices by those who raised us, eventually we realize we are free to agree or not), determine the world-view that we have.

some logicians believe you need infinity to describe truth. some reject this view. and yet, the ability to use logic and reason has not halted dead in its tracks, awaiting the answer.

at the extremes, both views are disheartening. the fervent zealot, willing to commit any transgression in the name of their beliefs, surely does not represent the best of what humanity can be. but neither does the perfectly amoral rationalist, who when asked: why are we? who are we? doesn't know, and worse, doesn't care.

most people fall somewhere in-between. i have known few people, who, if they were backed up against the wall hard, would never even consider prayer. who is it we talk to, when we are utterly alone? the thought that all this, is just only us, and that our very existence is a biochemical accident is one very few actually comtemplete, and even fewer live by.

by the same token, most people, even if deeply religious, realize that faith is riddled with contradiction. even Jesus, the figure held up as a model human, cired out as he was dying: "O Lord, why have you forsaken me?" our lot is no different.

faith without reason can be a sign of a weak mind. and yes, many people are weak enough to need comfort wherever they can find it. but reason without faith, is to strip the world of her mystery and beauty, and who of us truly desires that?

human beings are capable of great and noble things. to be outraged by injustice, to create visions of a better world, to make the unknown beauty exist, when it did not before. who is there alive that has not wept at a song that has moved them, or felt awe at the beauty of a single image? we can often act with tremendous love and honor, even when there is no clear reason for doing so. and these parts of ourselves, which we recognize to be us at our best, from whence they come?

i would argue that some religious feeling is to be discounted as mere tradition, but also forgiven because of that. we cannot discount the fact that all of us, in some sense, are children of our cultures. more than one point of view is possible, sure, but at least ONE point of view is necessary. who is to teach us, if not our parents (or their surrogates)?

my point is, when looking at how humans are, our history, and the views we have had during it, cannot be merely regarded as "outgrown". we may be new, but there is little proof in the current state of world affairs, to suggest we are "improved".

one could, for example, consider the ten commandments. put aside for a moment, whether these are actually the divine revelation of God's word.

Thou shalt not kill. Why do these words even EXIST? Why shouldn't we kill? This is something well worth thinking about, and whoever wrote it down, no matter what their motivations, has done us the kind of profound favor that just cannot be repaid.
lazy people version please?
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Old 08-14-2010, 20:46   #82
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I completely lost track of this Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveno View Post
here's the thing about this discussion that bothers me.
First thing- I was told it was "Father, why have you forsaken me?"

Second- drop the Harvard Talk and go simple. I'd respect your post more without it. It's a Game Forum, not the SAT.

Third- As for "Thou Shalt not Kill/Murder" The people Moses was leading fell into depravity. Murder, Theft, Adultry, and other 'Sins' were rampant. God really didn't feel like going thru another Noah, so he laid the law down. At least that's the way Heston told it.


Also- I find it strange everyone is all over Jaxx for saying Kids are brainwashed but not me for agreeing with it. It might be that I conveyed that I felt brainwashed by Religion myself, but I don't recall saying it.


Nonetheless, as for the question the Thread asks:

No, you should not be treated a certain way just because of who you choose to or not to Worship. Unfortunately some Religions feel they are superior, or right- and they persecute their 'enemies' and anyone that doesn't join them. Because of this prejudice runs rampant in this World more than ever. Governments may someday decide on Peace, but Religions never will.
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Yeah, that's where I've been.
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Old 08-14-2010, 21:21   #83
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Originally Posted by Fa1nT View Post
lazy people version please?
He's basically saying that we're presenting religious and non religious persons as a stark contrast whereas he believes that the majority of us fall somewhere in between, as culture and upbringing ultimately have an effect on us all, regardless of whether we make the choice to reject or accept that part of our history.

also, the correct term is tl;dr version
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Old 08-14-2010, 21:25   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar View Post
I completely lost track of this Thread.



First thing- I was told it was "Father, why have you forsaken me?"

Second- drop the Harvard Talk and go simple. I'd respect your post more without it. It's a Game Forum, not the SAT.

Third- As for "Thou Shalt not Kill/Murder" The people Moses was leading fell into depravity. Murder, Theft, Adultry, and other 'Sins' were rampant. God really didn't feel like going thru another Noah, so he laid the law down. At least that's the way Heston told it.


Also- I find it strange everyone is all over Jaxx for saying Kids are brainwashed but not me for agreeing with it. It might be that I conveyed that I felt brainwashed by Religion myself, but I don't recall saying it.


Nonetheless, as for the question the Thread asks:

No, you should not be treated a certain way just because of who you choose to or not to Worship. Unfortunately some Religions feel they are superior, or right- and they persecute their 'enemies' and anyone that doesn't join them. Because of this prejudice runs rampant in this World more than ever. Governments may someday decide on Peace, but Religions never will.
First: The Bible is a translated work, but whether it's God or Father, it's more or less the same thing here - you're just nitpicking like a grammar nazi

Second: If someone writes a verbose post, they expect only certain people to read it. By lowering themselves to allow everyone to read it, they defeat the entire purpose. This may be a game forum, but I believe we're all intelligent beings capable of basic English comprehension - whether one chooses to read a long post or just post "tl;dr" afterwards is the choice given to every member of this forum.

Finally, this thread has been pretty much derailed, so there's no use trying to bring the OP's purpose into this.

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Old 08-14-2010, 21:38   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deveno View Post

Thou shalt not kill. Why do these words even EXIST? Why shouldn't we kill? This is something well worth thinking about, and whoever wrote it down, no matter what their motivations, has done us the kind of profound favor that just cannot be repaid.
"There is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a variation of theft... When you kill a man, you steal a life. You steal his wife's right to a husband, rob his children of a father. When you tell a lie, you steal someone's right to the truth. When you cheat, you steal the right to fairness."

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Old 08-14-2010, 22:18   #86
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Originally Posted by MGofChaos View Post
this topic reminded me of when a radio station in the usa made a play so realistic about an alien invasion, people thought it was real. men i need to find that recording if anyone could help please.
One of my favorite happenings in all of history!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War...ds_%28radio%29
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Old 08-14-2010, 23:03   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakira View Post
IMHO religion is an invention of men who wanted power and needed means to scare/manipulate people. We would have a much better world without religion.
^This
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Originally Posted by Deveno View Post
I think people should be judged entirely on their ability to spell.
But then you would be a terrible person cause you never capitilise your I's unless they're at the start of a sentance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotak View Post
You are missing the point.
What Jaxx is saying is that he thinks everyone that is religious or leads a religious life is automatically brainwashed. This implies that these people cannot think for themselves. What annoys me is that he honestly believes this is how religious people live life. Whilst this is true in some cases, it is totally false in the majority of cases, and this gives religious people a bad rep and dribble like that causes MORE people to believe it.
Na what jaxx said was right (up until the "ps your a male") see If your told that beliving a certain religion is the right thing to do and that being an athiest is wrong then when your older you are likly to keep that opinion and when you have kids you then tach them to belive in the religion you tell them to or they go to hell. Now athiests however don't have this problem, they are not told that beliving in religion is wrong, infact most athiests are athiests cause they were not ntroduced to religion at a young age or they were gifted (like smart) and just was to smart to belive what there being told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loviatar View Post
I completely lost track of this Thread.



First thing- I was told it was "Father, why have you forsaken me?"

Second- drop the Harvard Talk and go simple. I'd respect your post more without it. It's a Game Forum, not the SAT.

Third- As for "Thou Shalt not Kill/Murder" The people Moses was leading fell into depravity. Murder, Theft, Adultry, and other 'Sins' were rampant. God really didn't feel like going thru another Noah, so he laid the law down. At least that's the way Heston told it.


Also- I find it strange everyone is all over Jaxx for saying Kids are brainwashed but not me for agreeing with it. It might be that I conveyed that I felt brainwashed by Religion myself, but I don't recall saying it.


Nonetheless, as for the question the Thread asks:

No, you should not be treated a certain way just because of who you choose to or not to Worship. Unfortunately some Religions feel they are superior, or right- and they persecute their 'enemies' and anyone that doesn't join them. Because of this prejudice runs rampant in this World more than ever. Governments may someday decide on Peace, but Religions never will.
But what if a religion is saying women have to were an ugly hat when they go outside and only there husband can see there hair? What about religions being homophobic. Should they not be treated badly for beliving such nonsense.


And what bugs me about religions is that religious people usually think that it's okay to kill animals, but not humans.

Who the hell decided humans were so great? Oh wow humans can talk that makes them inteligent so we can't kill them, but chickens na they didn't invent the gun, they've never been to war, they didn't poor oil into a river, that makes them non inteligent so it's okay to kill chickens.
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stoped reading there, as full +12 ninja, i was hit 25k by a nado
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Old 08-14-2010, 23:33   #88
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Personally, I support freedoms on all fronts. However, I tend to find organized groups like religion to be the most prone to judgement and "brainwashing" by their cause. I don't think it justifies being judged simply for their beliefs, but I much prefer the quiet-type religious people to the "HEY LISTEN TO ME I READ A BOOK ABOUT THINGS THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE" people.

The factor I tend to judge people most on is intelligence... or lack thereof.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:59   #89
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Originally Posted by mistressyesumes View Post
^This

But then you would be a terrible person cause you never capitilise your I's unless they're at the start of a sentance.

Na what jaxx said was right (up until the "ps your a male") see If your told that beliving a certain religion is the right thing to do and that being an athiest is wrong then when your older you are likly to keep that opinion and when you have kids you then tach them to belive in the religion you tell them to or they go to hell. Now athiests however don't have this problem, they are not told that beliving in religion is wrong, infact most athiests are athiests cause they were not ntroduced to religion at a young age or they were gifted (like smart) and just was to smart to belive what there being told.

But what if a religion is saying women have to were an ugly hat when they go outside and only there husband can see there hair? What about religions being homophobic. Should they not be treated badly for beliving such nonsense.


And what bugs me about religions is that religious people usually think that it's okay to kill animals, but not humans.

Who the hell decided humans were so great? Oh wow humans can talk that makes them inteligent so we can't kill them, but chickens na they didn't invent the gun, they've never been to war, they didn't poor oil into a river, that makes them non inteligent so it's okay to kill chickens.
I understand what you are saying, and its nice you agree with me. Tho I dont think you conveyed your point very well. But I understand.

I go against religion as its irrational, silly and against my moral code.

"Humans", have been killing animals for thousands of years, its part of an evolution. Its natural. I dont believe in hunting of partical animals as its cruel. I believe killing animals should be for legit reasons, e.g food.

We humans generally dont kill anything which has a furry skin, human features and are cute. We're suckers for those animals like dogs, baww.

Muslims dislike dogs only becuase mohammed said so. Ive seen videos of them killing them and beating them. Sick. But maybe thats just a minority of them.



I also find it funny how some religious like to pick and choose parts from their bible and ignore the rest. Funny how the bible said women shouldnt have anu authority over men and how you should be stoned if you work on a sunday, but NOOOo these religious people like to "forget" those rules.

Its all so illogical, if they like fairytales so much go read the 3 little pigges, or little red riding hood.











Religion flys us into buildings where science takes us to the moon.

/athiest win, woah owah owah
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:03   #90
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Originally Posted by Jaxx. View Post
Religion flys us into buildings where science takes us to the moon.

/athiest win, woah owah owah
NOWAI, the moonlanding was a hoax. NWO

Also: Thread fails, too much religion in it.

for people who are tltr;
Lotak says religion is for morals.
other mods say religion is your own choice.
Jaxx says mistressyesumes is a man.
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