Thread: Religion
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Old 04-08-2010, 19:20   #371
Arronax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 View Post
Yes and no. It's that simple, and it's not that simple. I'll discuss your examples.



It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.
"Believing in God" is more than just going "i believe in God". The devil believes in God. And I assure you, he won't be in heaven.
Salvation comes through faith, through repentance. Faith in that you trust God to do what he says he will do - ie. save you.
Repentance as before, is a lifestyle. It's living your life trying to not sin because you are thankful to God for sending Jesus to bear your punishment and allow you to have His grace.

So, it's not just belief. If that person in your first example were to truly repent, take responsibility for his sin and actions, then yes, he would be forgiven.



It's not about what you've done, and it's not about just believing in God. Remember, everyone is a sinner - we're all in the same boat.

There is no 'good' person in God's eyes. All have rejected him.]

Let me give you a more realistic scenario.

Sinner number 1
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 2
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? No? Then you must pay for your sin of rejecting me as your creator and ruler.

Sinner number 3
Background info: much like your subject 1.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

Sinner number 4
Much like your subject 2.
What God says: Have you accepted Jesus as your Saviour and Lord? Yes? Your punishment has been paid by Jesus on the cross, there is only grace for you. Come in.

You see, the way you live your life has no bearing on whether you enter heaven or not, because all people have sinned and this automatically excludes them from heaven. God doesn't need to consider that first - there is no good or bad people, only bad people.

Arro, consider these examples. How would you figure them out under your idea of how God should operate?

Person 1:
Commits genocide, is responsible for the murder and rape of millions. Lives in absolute wealth while his people live in absolute poverty.
In the last 10 years of his life, he donates all his money to charity, and spends his time helping the poor and working to cure diseases - just cause he wants to go to heaven.

Person 2:
Spends his life working and helping the homeless, people in third world countries, the sick and poor. Donates millions to charities etc.
Later on in his life, he becomes corrupt and uses his power to commit murder against millions of people in another country so he can use their natural resources to make more money.

So arro, what happens now? Does the good outweigh the bad, or does the bad outweigh the good?
Does person 1 go to heaven because his last efforts on earth were for 'good', and does person 2 go to hell because his last efforts on earth were for 'evil'?
Or do they both go to hell for committing such terrible sins, regardless of when... but then what about the good that they did?

When you want God to be who you think he should be, you get yourself into a bit of trouble. Then you have to invent new ideas, like.. purgatory

The Biblical answer that God has revealed to us about himself, is Jesus and grace. If they have not accepted Jesus as saviour and Lord (Lord meaning live a life with Jesus as God - a life of repentance and good works from faith (not for salvation)) then they're going to hell because of their rejection of God.
If they have accepted Jesus as Saviour and Lord, then they're going to heaven not because they did good things, but because their rejection against God has been paid for by Jesus on the cross and they receive his grace.

----------------

So arro, where do you stand? Subject 1, or subject 2?
Or somewhere inbetween?

It doesn't matter does it, I think you've made it clear where you stand...



The same place as everyone else, fletch, bigfry, myself included: the side who has rejected God - the only side there is.

heh. In my opinion, both of your subjects should be sent to hell if there is such a place.


In my opinion, your actions make up who you are. In my opinion, one shouldn't be affected by the "sin" of ones predecessors. In my opinion, a newborn baby is without sin. In my opinion, the default route for a baby that dies before "accepting god blahblahblah" should NOT bd going hell to suffer for all eternity.. just the thought of it disgusts me.
In my opinion, the idea of inheriting sin is plain out ridiculous.

If someone is to be judged for anything, it's what they themselves have done in this life.


In my opinion, believing in, and respecting a malevolent god such as the one you're talking about is unimaginable.





On a sidenote: I find it funny that people swear on the bible in courtrooms in some countries, amongst them america. I'm pretty sure the bible says something about not judging others? Wouldn't that make the entire legal system heresy?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBuzz View Post
Mayby i'm a muslim retard..

Last edited by Arronax; 04-08-2010 at 19:22.
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