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~YoShI~ V.7 03-09-2010 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 (Post 11019025)
sorry, wall o' text...

anyhow, glad we can have good discussions here without flaming.

f u.

Arronax 03-09-2010 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by CheekyPunk27 (Post 11019019)
Ahh... first, you didn't answer my question about evidence for:
1. Books being written way after a messiah came.
2. Alterations in the texts over hundreds of years.

It's ok though. I didn't expect you to actually answer them, given that there is none at all.

I think those are the two most common misconceptions about the Bible around the internet. That is, that they were written way after dates were said to have occurred, and that they have been altered many times to change what they say. These things are simply unsupported, false, and 'lies' (used willingly or ignorantly) by people who don't actually research them themselves.



Yep, I totally agree. Problem is, Catholics have to do a lot of twisting and stretching to pull purgatory from the Bible. It really just isn't there... invented by people... maybe they were honestly making a mistake, or maybe they were trying to get money... either way however, it's not in the Bible.



1. I can interpret this two ways. Firstly, why does evil exist.. in the world..? Because of human sin and rebellion against God.
The second way, is why does it exist 'everywhere' or as a concept. I really don't know... it's just the opposite of Good i suppose...

2. Hell is a 'place' or state of being out of God's goodness, and under His wrath and judgment. It exists because God is a Just God, and punishes sin and rebellion against Him.

3. From a Human perspective, it's probably just as fletch said. Of course, there are many "buts" to this, I suppose. The thing you need to keep in mind, is if you're trying to understand "why", then you need to allow the rest of the Christian and Biblical worldview to also help answer that question.

4. I don't cringe. My pastors preach as much on the OT as they do the NT. And you're certainly right, we should follow the whole Bible, not one part or another part.
The reason I would "cringe" is because some people refuse to accept a Christian interpretation of the Bible, as if they (a non-Christian) is interpreting it correctly and I am not.

All that said, I believe when trying to understand someone's world view, you are doing just that. Trying to understand it. You can't tell them it's wrong... you can disagree, but you can't say it's wrong - unless of course they contradict within themselves. To me, and many people, Christianity in it's fullness as described in the Bible is perfectly coherent within itself. It only starts to not make sense when people bring in non-Christian concepts and ideas into it.



The authenticity of 'miracles' is beyond the scope of what I intended to discuss, but if you insist:

Gief proof that any miracles have ever happened~


And you don't seriously believe that the words that you find in the bible today are the same as the ones that were once written down in the "first bible" ? If you do, you're too stupid to bother conversing with.

Quote:


This is assuming an initial state of neutrality. Biblically, all people are already going to suffer eternally for rejecting God. The only choice is accept his gift of salvation.
As I said above, in order to understand and accept this... you need to understand and accept the Christian view that all people are already rejecting God and worthy of judgment.



I like fletch's poo example.

And you're right, it is hard to believe. In fact, it's impossible... at least for man. God saves people though.

As for a miracle, I would say the most convincing one is the supposed resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I can't give 100% proof, but there is a fairly strong case for it. It just depends on how "hard" your heart is to not believing.

The evidence goes for all the possible explanations that people have proposed, and shows that you'd need a good level of 'faith' or ignorance to believe those, as they are as unlikely as the fact that Jesus did in fact resurrect
.
I don't have time right now to write a proper reply to your entire post, so I'll just comment on this bit right now and do the rest later:

Imo proof shouldn't be a matter of "how hard your heart is to not believing". It should be irrefutable, solid evidence. Now obviously that's not possible with that kind of miracle, so we'll have to settle with documents outside of the bible (the bible itself is useless as proof of anything at all). And even then, it'd have to be several different people, with consistent explanations of the event. I don't believe such things exist.


Speaking of miracles, do you believe that Noah gathered up 2 of every single species of animal on this planet (that is, several billion species of animals), and that the entire world was flooded? (I will slap you silly if you say anything about not taking that part of the bible literally)

Ryuzaki 03-09-2010 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher (Post 11018555)
thats what i like about Syd, he never has a pre-chosen opinion he choses whatever is logic and seems right to him whatever the situation is even if it backfired for me in this case

PS~ good job on making the thread real nice & give me evidence of a magical fairy with a beard living in the clouds plz

Are you referring to me?

The_LP 03-09-2010 12:35

INB4 404!!

*thread gets closed*

ChaoticArcher 03-09-2010 13:27

so like theres a bunch of different religions and they all explain differently 1 event but all of them are SURE they are right and keep bablin' about faith...only one can be right out of dozzens meaning alot are wrong...and if im not mistaken it means millions of people who followed the wrong religions got ****ed over

oh and im reading a book called the tomb of jesus and its quite interesting how they explain the bodys movements and made sure it was him with the DNA tests and everything but theres another similar tomb with the exact replica of many of the relics but with different dna (one of the old towels had 1 lil string different from the real one)...what i understand from it is that someone tryed to fake an event

Arronax 03-09-2010 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher (Post 11019652)
so like theres a bunch of different religions and they all explain differently 1 event but all of them are SURE they are right and keep bablin' about faith...only one can be right out of dozzens meaning alot are wrong...and if im not mistaken it means millions of people who followed the wrong religions got ****ed over

oh and im reading a book called the tomb of jesus and its quite interesting how they explain the bodys movements and made sure it was him with the DNA tests and everything but theres another similar tomb with the exact replica of many of the relics but with different dna (one of the old towels had 1 lil string different from the real one)...what i understand from it is that someone tryed to fake an event

Try again, this time with proper punctuation. I'm not reading that heap of ****.

The_LP 03-09-2010 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticArcher (Post 11019652)
so like theres a bunch of different religions and they all explain differently 1 event but all of them are SURE they are right and keep bablin' about faith...only one can be right out of dozzens meaning alot are wrong...and if im not mistaken it means millions of people who followed the wrong religions got ****ed over

oh and im reading a book called the tomb of jesus and its quite interesting how they explain the bodys movements and made sure it was him with the DNA tests and everything but theres another similar tomb with the exact replica of many of the relics but with different dna (one of the old towels had 1 lil string different from the real one)...what i understand from it is that someone tryed to fake an event

Sorry but just because there are a bunch of theories doesn't mean only one could be right. I think the better answer would be that none are right.

The thing about faith is it requires believing in unreal stuff (believing in nothing, literally), hence being called faith.

Arronax 03-09-2010 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_LP (Post 11019661)
Sorry but just because there are a bunch of theories doesn't mean only one could be right. I think the better answer would be that none are right.

The thing about faith is it requires believing in unreal stuff (believing in nothing, literally), hence being called faith.

or superstition. :X

The_LP 03-09-2010 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arronax (Post 11019675)
or superstition. :X

I suppose, yeah, since you can be scared into not doing things, only it's for fear of burning for eternity, or whatever, instead of just bad luck sprees. ahaha

BuddhaIncarnate 03-09-2010 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arronax (Post 11019506)
Speaking of miracles, do you believe that Noah gathered up 2 of every single species of animal on this planet (that is, several billion species of animals), and that the entire world was flooded? (I will slap you silly if you say anything about not taking that part of the bible literally)

No, I believe he took 7 each of the clean ones, and I am not entirely sure fish had to be taken on board :x

Arronax 03-09-2010 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddhaIncarnate (Post 11019810)
No, I believe he took 7 each of the clean ones, and I am not entirely sure fish had to be taken on board :x

>_> Clean ones? explain.

BuddhaIncarnate 03-09-2010 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arronax (Post 11019845)
>_> Clean ones? explain.

That is a question for a Jew :x but I know some of them were sacrificial birds and such.

Arronax 03-09-2010 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuddhaIncarnate (Post 11019895)
That is a question for a Jew :x but I know some of them were sacrificial birds and such.

"God instructs Noah to board the Ark with his family, seven pairs of the birds and the clean animals, and two pairs of the unclean animals and two pairs of the unclean animals" (wiki).


Yeah, so he took at the very least 2 pairs of each species of animal with him.


Do you honestly believe this to be even remotely possible?

The_LP 03-09-2010 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arronax (Post 11019947)
"God instructs Noah to board the Ark with his family, seven pairs of the birds and the clean animals, and two pairs of the unclean animals and two pairs of the unclean animals" (wiki).


Yeah, so he took at the very least 2 pairs of each species of animal with him.


Do you honestly believe this to be even remotely possible?

He does, based on the mindset, directed at you:

"If it's not possible then why come you don't have a tattoo??"

Or perhaps he's thinking something of the sort:

"I will answer you when you try to balance shoes (or a lamp, luls) on your head."

ChaoticArcher 03-09-2010 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_LP (Post 11019661)
Sorry but just because there are a bunch of theories doesn't mean only one could be right. I think the better answer would be that none are right.

The thing about faith is it requires believing in unreal stuff (believing in nothing, literally), hence being called faith.

sometimes taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back is the only way to convince fools

@Ryuzaki, yes i was reffering to you...sorry thats the only name i actualy spoke to but i do know its not you anymore but i was never given the permission to use the atticus/mantra thing and for some reason never really went with ryu


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