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UCANTSEEMEE 07-22-2009 13:44

not laggy to me although i never bought a a db and i dont have a good comp or internet

UCANTSEEMEE 07-22-2009 13:44

not laggy to me although i never bought a a db and i dont have a good comp or internet

Lord_Foo 07-22-2009 13:50

Like the suggestion, biased poll.

Not signed.

kvdk 07-22-2009 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clenk~V.7 (Post 10598336)
Who will send the packet to player11-20? How would they know its a legit packet and not a fake one? They either have to do the checks to verify it or wait til after player 2-10 get ahold of it and decide its legit. Then what? They either have to communicate to eachother or the server to tell everyone its legit. So your increasing the number of packets again. Do you not understand how network cards work? They work hell of alot slower when dealing with multiple packets. They work alot faster with larger, fewer packets.

Still do you not see how that is worse?



It wouldn't make a difference. The checks would be the same that the server does. Since the server doesn't catch botting, the clients won't be able to. SV is just a clicker so noway to remove it without blocking the app really. Proxy manipulates packets directly and they would still manipulate them and everyone will know its proxy but the computer won't know the difference. Everything else is a ram edit which is undetectable for the most part.

first of all, WHY send someone a FAKE package?
second of all, THE PACKAGE SIZE IS THE SAME!
but instead of it going to the server, its immediately send to all other players!
they themselves react immediately after choosing if its legit or not...
and then tell the server what each client thinks..

should the majority say the player did something wrong, the server disconnects them and informs all other users about it..

instead of having the server verify everything, it only has to manage the connections

Clenk~V.7 07-22-2009 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvdk (Post 10598817)
first of all, WHY send someone a FAKE package?
second of all, THE PACKAGE SIZE IS THE SAME!
but instead of it going to the server, its immediately send to all other players!
they themselves react immediately after choosing if its legit or not...
and then tell the server what each client thinks..

should the majority say the player did something wrong, the server disconnects them and informs all other users about it..

instead of having the server verify everything, it only has to manage the connections

The packet size is not the same. You send more stuff to the server for it to do checks then the server only sends what everyone else needs to know. In our case, the ID and the new position.

Your still increasing the traffic to and from every player and server which in turn will increase lag. The difference is the clients are staying ahead of the server which is generally always bad. Everyone is reliant on everyone else so if one person lags everyone lags.

Why wouldn't someone send a fake packet? Isn't that the whole reason "hackers" do what they do? TQ did minimal security and look at what happened. TQ thought noone would figure out the speed variable held client side and then someone decided to mess around and found how to do speed. TQ thought noone would figure out how to change english to chinese inside the client to make a multi and then someone chnaged it and now we got multi made 3 sec after any patch.

The server still has to update and manage everything because what if noone is on screen? Then the person can do what ever he wants. What if the person loses power and the server never gets a DC message. The server wouldn't know where to log him in at or how much HP or Mana or anything.

kvdk 07-22-2009 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clenk~V.7 (Post 10598850)
The packet size is not the same. You send more stuff to the server for it to do checks then the server only sends what everyone else needs to know. In our case, the ID and the new position.

Your still increasing the traffic to and from every player and server which in turn will increase lag. The difference is the clients are staying ahead of the server which is generally always bad. Everyone is reliant on everyone else so if one person lags everyone lags.

Why wouldn't someone send a fake packet? Isn't that the whole reason "hackers" do what they do? TQ did minimal security and look at what happened. TQ thought noone would figure out the speed variable held client side and then someone decided to mess around and found how to do speed. TQ thought noone would figure out how to change english to chinese inside the client to make a multi and then someone chnaged it and now we got multi made 3 sec after any patch.

The server still has to update and manage everything because what if noone is on screen? Then the person can do what ever he wants. What if the person loses power and the server never gets a DC message. The server wouldn't know where to log him in at or how much HP or Mana or anything.

player1 sends info he normally sends to the server to people
players2 - 20 send a verification package to the server

that is it, unless something is wrong, then more packages are send to D/C the hacker

Clenk~V.7 07-22-2009 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvdk (Post 10598986)
player1 sends info he normally sends to the server to people
players2 - 20 send a verification package to the server

that is it, unless something is wrong, then more packages are send to D/C the hacker

Wait 2-10 are those within the RL range and 11-20 are the ones on map still?

Do you understand why we get "lagspikes"? The client gets overwhelmed and it takes a bit longer to do things. Your adding ALOT more things that the client has to do.

Draconis71 07-23-2009 00:15

"in range" for 2-3 screens? What about the HUGE maps on the way to Adventure Zone? Not too populated, most of the time...

kvdk 07-23-2009 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clenk~V.7 (Post 10599108)
Wait 2-10 are those within the RL range and 11-20 are the ones on map still?

Do you understand why we get "lagspikes"? The client gets overwhelmed and it takes a bit longer to do things. Your adding ALOT more things that the client has to do.

look, stop being a moron about this, and stop looking at it the way it is..

take a CLEAN algorithm, not the one TQ currently uses with some changes, but a NEW CLEAN one...

p2p networks work on the same principle as we are discussing here
how would it cause lag, to remove stress from the server and increase speed?

Clenk~V.7 07-23-2009 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvdk (Post 10599460)
look, stop being a moron about this, and stop looking at it the way it is..

take a CLEAN algorithm, not the one TQ currently uses with some changes, but a NEW CLEAN one...

p2p networks work on the same principle as we are discussing here
how would it cause lag, to remove stress from the server and increase speed?

I'm not being a moron about this. I'm being realistic about this. You think this will be the solution for all the lag but you don't understand servers are meant to do these types of things. And do you understand the server does alot of things that the clients don't have to do? With this there will be a lot of things that will eat up your cpu.

There is a big difference between p2p networks and this. p2p networks are simple and there are no calculations needed. While doing this with any game will cause everyone to lag more and decrease fps for majority of the players.

I just realized because a friend was complaining that his net was capped that this will own almost everyone who has a cap on their bandwidth.

kvdk 07-23-2009 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clenk~V.7 (Post 10599784)
I'm not being a moron about this. I'm being realistic about this. You think this will be the solution for all the lag but you don't understand servers are meant to do these types of things. And do you understand the server does alot of things that the clients don't have to do? With this there will be a lot of things that will eat up your cpu.

There is a big difference between p2p networks and this. p2p networks are simple and there are no calculations needed. While doing this with any game will cause everyone to lag more and decrease fps for majority of the players.

I just realized because a friend was complaining that his net was capped that this will own almost everyone who has a cap on their bandwidth.

ello, seen me saying that thing about running a double network?

ooh, and p2p networks are easier??
THEY TRANSFER HUGE FILES FFS!

i am sorry, but saying a p2p network is LESS work then some simple character info is pure bull****..

i can, and have simulated a full P2P network...
when transfering raw data it works faster then when its transfering full binary's...

and the servers these days aint that much better then the average PC [and tq's are worse!], yet they manage to do all the calculations for every player on the whole server, so the PC's will be able to handle everything easy...

Clenk~V.7 07-23-2009 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvdk (Post 10599812)
ello, seen me saying that thing about running a double network?

ooh, and p2p networks are easier??
THEY TRANSFER HUGE FILES FFS!

i am sorry, but saying a p2p network is LESS work then some simple character info is pure bull****..

i can, and have simulated a full P2P network...
when transfering raw data it works faster then when its transfering full binary's...

and the servers these days aint that much better then the average PC [and tq's are worse!], yet they manage to do all the calculations for every player on the whole server, so the PC's will be able to handle everything easy...

Its pretty apparent you never programmed before. p2p networks outside of the connection setup and closing which is the same for every connection setup and closing only have a few different packet structures and their file management is easy. They have to send the offset needed and size needed. And they receive the offset to start at, the size, and the info. The management is done just through a byte array or using the OS file management system and just writing directly to disc as receiving.

I've had to make a simple p2p network for class in 4 hours and my server has one hooked up to it for friends to use that I made as well. Mines even compatible with torrents and it was easy as hell.

Servers are always superior to PC's for the fact they don't got to do anything besides basic computations. Do you think that it takes more time to render or update and send/receive packets? Besides horribly written collision and sorting algorithms, rendering is always the most time consuming part of the game loop.

Actually I don't know why I'm even trying to explain anymore, you never programmed before and you just think everything will work perfectly although next to no PC game does anything like this for all the reasons I've said.

theRationalOne 07-23-2009 14:27

clenk, why do you even bother? =P

kvdk 07-23-2009 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clenk~V.7 (Post 10599940)
Its pretty apparent you never programmed before. p2p networks outside of the connection setup and closing which is the same for every connection setup and closing only have a few different packet structures and their file management is easy. They have to send the offset needed and size needed. And they receive the offset to start at, the size, and the info. The management is done just through a byte array or using the OS file management system and just writing directly to disc as receiving.

I've had to make a simple p2p network for class in 4 hours and my server has one hooked up to it for friends to use that I made as well. Mines even compatible with torrents and it was easy as hell.

Servers are always superior to PC's for the fact they don't got to do anything besides basic computations. Do you think that it takes more time to render or update and send/receive packets? Besides horribly written collision and sorting algorithms, rendering is always the most time consuming part of the game loop.

Actually I don't know why I'm even trying to explain anymore, you never programmed before and you just think everything will work perfectly although next to no PC game does anything like this for all the reasons I've said.

i have programmed before, and if you dont believe me that is your choice

but appearently you do not know how C++ works, the language CO is written in [atleast, that is what people seem to say]
and C++ is one of the FEW languages, that can support upto 64 threads being active at the same time, and even allow for them to interact without slowing eachother

creating such a system is hard, but not impossible

and why most games dont use it? cause client<>server is easier and their servers aint ****ty win95 PC's!

Toxicosis 07-23-2009 17:29

I play two online games with p2p gaming network. A lot of hacking and lag comes from it :(

The other players internet must be very good for this to work. Everybody needs fast network for it, and this does not happen. . !
Even the game that uses p2p has a server for relay, and it adds up to 50 ping to normal times. I think it is a bad idea still. . :(


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